Brexit: what would happen to EU citizens living in UK?

[marghini]

I am a EU citizen and I have been living, working and paying taxes in the UK for a while.

I am really concerned about what would happen to the EU citizens who built a life for themselves and settled here in the UK in case of a Brexit.

Do you think all EU citizens already living in the UK would be pushed out? Or perhaps the government would just stop allowing further EU immigration?

Our situation is quite ironic when it comes to brexit. I'm an EU national, my husband is British. However, my family on my grand-mother's side was English (but didn't pass on the nationality to my mother as at the time, you couldn't hold double nationality). OH however has no British roots, his parents having immigrated when they were children.

To add to it, I work for the NHS (can't make it more British!), whereas OH works for a French company based in the UK. OH would love the chance to transfer to a post in France, it's me who is keener to remain in the UK.

I'm not worried as I've been here for 20 years, so if it comes to the worse, I will fork the £1K to gain nationality, just won't do so unless I really have to.

For every argument put forward by the Remain campaign it either doesn't apply to me or I think that there "warnings" are actually positives to leaving.

Who thinks lower house prices is a bad thing.

Are you on the wrong thread oliversmumsarmy? We're talking about the likely consequences of brexit for EU citizens living in the UK, not about house prices!

Sorry wrong thread, had several tabs open.

I really want to vote out. However a work colleague who is french grenada whose daughter was born here 16 years ago. Fears they would lose job and have to leave. They have worked entire time. What would happen to them if we left?

Loko she could seek citizenship presumably, if she can afford to do so (it's expensive).

Your friend is in the group of people least likely to be expected to leave, although she would probably have to comply with additional requirements - some sort of registration or visa. No one knows exactly what.

Legally, unless an agreement is made with the EU to allow EU citizens to remain in the UK, your friend would need to comply with national immigration law (which is very restrictive). It's likely that an agreement will be made that preserves the right to remain, but nothing is ever 100% certain.

Mistigri

It is very hard to pass the citizenship test, even if you've studied at school in the uk. It'll take some time to study but online there is the life in the uk test you could try, see how many times it'll take you to actually pass, and that's £50 each go.
And if you ring the home office to discuss your application you can't! Even if you need to Ask whether you automatically are a citizen or not, the only way of really finding out is if you pay £1200 but if you're refused you won't get that money back. I've already lost money on two applications and all they needed was to ask me for more paperwork! This was an application to proove residency.
I wrote six letters to different departments, all ignored! Who wants to go through this!
Now I'm supposed to send them £1200 and lose that aswell.

Swingofthings

If I were you I'd go to France houses are cheaper there, or if you could go to a warmer country! Oh yes! Why should you stay behind in the snow when other countries are better (or WILL become better) because they have better weather! Think about it, doesn't it sound crazy to stay in a cold place and if they leave EU will be worse, they've got nothing left, companies have gone abroad for some reason and now they want the public to vote in or out ? Who will get the blame when it goes down?and they want you to vote without stating what exactly they are voting for? Will there be free movement? What exactly are you voting for? Its silly.
Crisis always bring the poor to their place, and they like that.

yeah LurkingHusband you're so smart and so much more intelligent than the hoi polloi aren't you? And smug with it. Honestly, "Lurking Husband"...like you feel you're giving a "real man's" perspective, an intelligent injection of masculinity on a womens' website.

Tragic.

So you're pessimistic because the political awareness of the "average voter" is sub par. And so far beneath the awareness and all round intellectual capacity of Lurking Husband...(the thinking womans' dose of machismo).

Your arrogance and narcissism is painfully apparent. Maybe you're an ok guy, but it doesn't come across. At least, from another man's perspective. At least from mine in any case. You sound to me like a guy who loves his imaginary perceived reflection in the eyes of womankind.

Me on the other hand?

I am extremely sexually attractive...to both women and men! (I have even had previously heterosexual men unable to resist my animal sexual appeal). But you won't catch me lurking anywhere. I am raw talent. And it is entirely unimportant to me what anyone, male or female thinks about that.

I am in plain view. I absolutely do not lurk, and especially not with a smug superior oh so sexy attitude.

(And I am voting Brexit, as is everyone I have spoken to less two people. And I could care less about all you foreigners...go swim in the Med...permanently).

Nothing like a bit of positivity to get the juices flowing!

Not caring stems from evilness.

just because your parents were born in the UK it doesn't mean you are British, and who knows where your ancestors are really from, just have to go far far back. Most foreigners come from warm countries and I'm sure they'd rather go back but the people who buy for example Coca Cola have made their countries poorer by taking over or they're at war, So they have no choice but to throw themselves into the sea, I know I would rather die in the sea if it was me, why would they prefer to go to the uk if they're better off getting asylum in EU. You just have to read up about where they really go to live in the EU, because the UK is worse for them, not better. Being blind folded and not knowing if you're really voting leave, and it'll stop free movement. It just doesn't add up. What are the conditions people are voting for? If it'll be like Norway there will still be free movement and contributing to EU. If it's like Australia points system well they have more immigrants than the Uk. If it becomes like for he Non-EU well there are more Non-eu in the uk than there is EU

And I could care less about all you foreigners...go swim in the Med...permanently)

This from an American (note the underline turn of phrase), who claims to have a vote in the referendum ... Hmm

Some interesting development from the Leave camp today. They said they'd like to implement an Australian style points system by the next general election. However, they say no changes will happen to Irish citizens and EU citizens who are already 'lawfully resident' in the UK. I am still deciphering this. Do they mean EU citizens who are living here or EU citizens who have permanent resident? Because me being here for three years (no PR yet), technically I am still a 'lawful resident'. What's your views on this?

Many thanks,
Joanna

Joanna I don't think it's possible to have a sensible view on it without a definition of what constitutes "lawfully resident". This would presumably need to be set out in legislation and the precise details would depend on the wording.

"Lawfully resident" under EU law would I think cover anyone legitimately exercising their right to freedom of movement (to work or to seek work), but EU law will cease to apply on the date of brexit. So it will depend on the definition of lawfully resident adopted by any amendments to UK immigration law.

My personal opinion is that this proposal is just for show and is designed to appeal to voters who want a fortress Britain - I think an Australian style system is not a likely outcome. I'm increasingly convinced that if there is a leave vote we'll end up with an EEA solution because it's the only workable arrangement that could be agreed in 2 years. But this won't win any votes so no one is talking about it. If I'm right this would leave us migrants mostly unaffected.

None of this is relevant to Irish citizens, whose right to live, work and vote in the UK does not depend on EU membership.

EU law will cease to apply on the date of Brexit what does his mean? I thought it was after 2 years?

I've just heard both sides are at 41%. Yougov online poll 41% IN 41% OUT.

It's like signing an empty contract. What exactly are the public going to get?
Oh well, if the OUT win all the blame will be on them if this gets worse. If the IN win they'll ask get the blame because apparently it's really easy to go to the UK and become a citizen, but you have to be able to pay it all. That's why they usually go elsewhere in Europe.

EU law will cease to apply on the date of Brexit what does his mean? I thought it was after 2 years?

Brexit doesn't happen immediately after the referendum - the UK has to notify the European council of its intention to leave, and then brexit occurs either on a date mutually agreed in the withdrawal agreement, or two years after the notification. So unlikely to be before July 2018.

Of course if there is an EEA type agreement (which I personally think is the most likely consequence of a leave vote) then nothing changes for migrants. My comment above was based on the "clean break" scenario currently being promoted by the leave camp, who seem to have run out of countries to emulate (I think they realised that this approach was flawed once Boris started talking about the Albanian model ). They will backtrack on this at Olympic 100m gold medal speed if there is a leave vote.

Would Spanish politicians want to keep all the elderly Brits on the Costa del Sol with their medical needs? How much do they help the local economy? British builders used to go to Germany to work a lot... do they still? Would they be welcome?

Would Spanish politicians want to keep all the elderly Brits on the Costa del Sol with their medical needs?

Depends if reciprocal healthcare agreements survive. British pensioners living in the EU have no rights to local healthcare, because they have never paid into the pot. So unless they can afford private insurance, they are reliant on existing agreements under which the NHS foots the bill.

My DH's aunt and uncle are in Portugal and they wouldn't be able to afford private insurance. Like many of the post 2004 generation of British pensioners abroad, they aren't wealthy and don't have property in the UK to go back to. I'm genuinely not sure what they would do - how would the UK deal with returnees like them? Two elderly folks with only the state pension to live on, no property, and in poor health ... I do wonder what sort of reception they could expect. You can't have 70-80 year olds on the streets surely.

Joanna, the exit side has clarified what they mean more or less what they mean by 'lawfully resident' as 'Second, there will be no change for EU citizens already lawfully resident in the UK. These EU citizens will automatically be granted indefinite leave to remain in the UK and will be treated no less favourably than they are at present'. As we are talking about granting this class ILR, they would need to fulfil as a minimum the 5-year residential requirement. How that will be determined and shaped remains to be seen (eg. when the clock will start ticking, what parameters will be taken into consideration, how they will handle the paperwork etc.). The unvoiced issue for me is still the story of those 3 million souls who suddenly have become the scapegoats and even if unlikely event the 'in' prevails, will for ever more be stigmatised. Worse, if the 'out' wins then the anti-EU sentiments will found a steady outlet on the European immigrants. Equally, a large number of the long-term EU expats in the UK (10,20 and more years) would simply not accept to have to apply for visa or similar shenanigans, not because they think themselves better but because it will simply be humiliating - British people will probably criticise this stance, but you logically expect Europeans not to intervene in an internal affair, similarly don't try to see this through the lenses of the expats.

I hope that eu citizens will have the same restrictions put on them as non eu migrants, meaning no acess to public funds, having to pay the £500 nhs charge, no entitlement to public housing, no entitlement to live here with British family unless their british partner earns over 18000 and still required to pay taxes.

If this seems harsh and unfair then you have to realise that this is the reality that non eu migrants face when living in the country before ilr. Thousands of family have been torn apart because of unfair restrictions created by the home office

As the government have no say in eu migration, they attack the non eu migrants in order to achieve their target of lowering net migration. Personally, I believe it should be one rule for all, being an eu member should not make you more entitled to live here. I'm voting out, let's hope these restrictions come into place sooner than later. And before you think I'm harsh for saying this, what I described is my reality right now. My partner is a non eu migrant who has less right to live here with me , a british citizen, than a European family. It needs to change.

@ Sidelle

What you are describing has nothing to do with Europeans or the EU, it is a purely UK-based system. The government decided to treat British citizens unequally by imposing these particular clauses. Equally, in order to right the wrongs you try to fix the cause, not extent the injustice. I sincerely hope things will improve for you and your family if the UK votes out, although I have my reservations. Finally, the major difference is that a large part of the Europeans can well move to any other of the 26 countries.

Hi there @strangermisfit

I completely understand what your saying but I have to say that freedom of movement doesn't improve the situation. The uk has no control over eu citizens moving here and therefore they come down harder on the non eu migrants. I don't think many british people are aware of this fact but I don't see why we should continue to tolerate the laws that the eu dictates to us about a Europeans right to reside in any eu country with their family (article 8 eu human rights). Even if the government thinks this is unfair they can't object to it as we are currently part of the eu. Therefore, the only logical way to solve this dilemma is leave eu in my opinion.

That way everyone can be treated as equal, as the government could control immigration more effectively and relax the rules for British families in my situation.

I don't think so, Sidelle. Non-EU migrants make up about 180,000 per year. 80,000 more than the net immigration target of 100,000. After Brexit, some EU migrants would take the same route as current non-EU immigrants, in order to come to UK, which means realistically UK can't expect net immigration to go below 250,000. There is no way the non-EU rules will be relaxed. Expect the rules to get stricter, if anything.

It's been acknowledged recently that the figures were allot higher than that.

I think that they've wont be attracted to come here if they know that they'll have to get a visa to live here. Also if they have no access to public funds it might discourage more people knowing that they won't be able to claim the wtc and ctc etc.

Anyway, I'm all for leaving the EU but that's just me, everyone is entitled to their opinion but I do think the UK could benefit from not having to pay the eu migrants benefits and charging them to use the nhs if they've not worked here for 5 years.