Mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Years Eve

[Cellardoor1]

I've just read this and I'm shocked that such a thing could happen. A group of around 1,000 men gathered and assaulted at least 60 women and girls and also pickpocketed people. Apparently the news wasn't released until now out of fears it could stir up tension as the men appeared to be of Arab/North African appearance, possibly refugees.

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/cologne-police-chief-condemns-sex-assaults-years-eve-36083833

Batshitlady Those sites and bloggers you mentioned are all probably still scouring their imaginations (and the boundaries of plausibility) to find a way to blame USA, the BBC and/or Israel for it all.

If we allow European culture to fuse with the Islamic equivalent, Europe would lose almost all the things that make others want to live there. We must vote against EU membership, gain control of our own immigration policy. UK is a tolerant, welcoming and fair country to those fleeing war zones. I know I've been through it and will be eternally thankful fopr being allowed to be a UK citizen. Let's face it, it is in Germany's interest to see the mass immigration were seeing now, or else it wouldn't be happening. It is not in ours..

I am bored with the Guardian now. It is a parody of a radical newspaper. "Comment is moderated."

uglyswan, I definitely Do not belong to the Group of german People Who claim all Immigrants and refugees responsible for what happened. but I think the immigrationpolitic in These last months was not very reasonable. at least there should be a reli able registration of every one coming in.
but I think, immigrationpolitic politischen coul be a whole New very long thread here and probably was so not only one in the past?

and yes, i think, the laws should be reviewed and reformed, i was utterly shocked to red here, how lax our laws are or how lax they seem to be Interpreted by course. i ws not aware of this.

i certainely want every cases of Sexual assault pursued and punished, without an exception. it will not be possible because the victims won't be able to identify every offender, born and bred german, Immigrant or Tourist, but I wish it coul be done.

on the german parenting site i am toll, that it is our fault. basically that is, what they say, because we don't Do enough to Integrate refugees or asylumseekers or Immigrants. Personally i think, that an Immigrant has the duty to try to Integrate himself in his New chosen (or not chosen) environment. to get ihm or her to Do this, we have to be welcoming and open and able and willigt to help, but it's a bilateral thing...it's not only me Who has to try.

i am sorry for the capitals thrown in....it's suprisingly difficult to teach my ipad english

"Genuine refugees do not behave like this -- because they are just too scared of being sent back or their living circumstances worsening. They avoid trouble with the police and keep their heads down."

Werksallhourz is correct. Genuine refugees are subdued with shock and bewilderment and go to great pains not to raise their heads above the parapet.

There was a feminist blogger linked to up thread by Ubik I think, who has already managed to blame it on the West.

Sonya ... There was a wonderful comment below the line on a CIF article a few days ago.

"The Guardian is now a surrealist art project."

I though that hit the nail on the head, myself.

Sorry that sounds sarky against " feminist". I am a feminist. It was I think how she presented herself iyswim.

Watching the posts go pop is more fascinating than any other type of performance art I have seen!

is it really that simple as saying real refugees do not do this

if they are fleeing from Syria they are a refugee

not all refugees will be peaceful good people. within any group they are the majority are but you will find those who commit crimes, those who are violent, those who are rapists and we know some have come over and have connections with ISIS

do we only accept those who are nice people ? that is not what accepting refugees into a country is about and it is impossible to do

In response to someone else upthread, no, I haven't missed the reports of lone men leaving for Europe. What would you do if your town or city was bombed every day or you were about to be arrested by people who torture you or force you to join the military and kill people? Would you stay if bombs were falling all around you? Some of the lone men are escaping war. Many others are escaping persecution of different kinds and have a legitimate reason to doso, lone or not.

visitor - I don't disagree with anything you say. I am just heartily sick of these divide and rule tactics, the blatant lie that you can be pro-woman or pro-refugee, but not both, and the hypocrisy of politicians like Jens "women eat the morning after pill like smarties" Spahn who have been stalwart opponents of women's rights in the past suddenly pretending to show an interest in women's rights and safety - but not suggesting any pro-woman measures. The Bundestag discussed whether it would be necessary to reform §177 that defines sexual assault and rape in compliance with the Istanbul convention last year - and decided it was fine the way it was. Where are the politicians who okayed this now? Why can't we have this discussion now?

I completely agree wit you Ugly.

Yes. We have felt sorry for them and allowed them to come here for safety. And this is how they repay us. I was on the fence about the migrant crisis: now I'm not. It has become their rights versus ours, them versus us, and why should women be the ones to pay all the time. Why should women be told to stay away from public spaces, it is not us causing the trouble, why haven't they told all men to stop congregating? Europe is our home, why should we be forced out for rapists?

That was to Luna btw

I hope you're not still in denial about the culture of the attackers. Go look at the updated BBC report, its finally made the front page, where it would have been in the first place if they had been attacking all comers rather than just women.

I am not calling all women on this thread hysterical. I am saying it about those being alarmist, reactionary and unable to use critical thought. Automatically linking the men that carried out the attacks to refugees or immigrants is foolish and wooly minded. Concluding that a whole culture is responsible for the acts of a few is hysterical. Whilst 1000 is a large number, when compared against the actual number of people that have claimed asylum or are immigrants, it is not representative of the whole.

Strongly objecting to the behaviour of these men and being appalled, frightened and outraged by it whilst feeling huge sympathy for the women attacked that have been demeaned, victim blamed and unsupported is not hysterical. Making the leap to blame and point fingers willy nilly is.

There are a lot of stupid comments on this thread. One being a poster questioning why Syrian men don't seem to harrass women and asserting it may because some are Christian when the likelihood is that many Syrians, regardless of religious beliefs, simply don't do it because they are just normal people.

Surely any men that sexually attack women have beliefs that our incompatible with ours?

My point is that this is the first time ever that violence against women has been taken seriously by the German press and German politicians.

What about #Aufschrei and the nation wide debate that followed after Brüderle's inappropriate behaviour two years ago? Slightly different topic, but it shows that German society is not generally unwilling to discuss these kinds of topics.

If the only response to these attacks is to crack down on immigration, we will have missed the opportunity of effecting any change whatsoever in how the German legal system safeguards (or rather fails to safeguard) women's rights.

I agree with this. I have seen a lot of people on blogs and social media demanding changes to the legal situation though, as I have done myself upthread. Sadly it's a different story for the main newspapers so far.

You wrote that the discussion at this point could still go "either way": reform criminal law vs. immigration and integration. It shouldn't be one or the other though, both need attention quite urgently.

I also strongly suspect that a significant chunk of women in Germany don't even realise how insufficiently they are being protected by our current laws. I'm a lawyer and actually remember something like that being mentioned in an essay I read at uni.

I agree it seems that the German laws on sexual assault are not tough enough. And that presumably leads to some of the official apathy.

But being terrified of neo Nazis is the stupidest reason to back off from policing everybody. Its the way to make the big middle ground in society think the right wingers are correct.

I was talking to a friend on the phone today and we almost fell out of friendship. She tells me that as there is nothing that she & I can do what is the point of going on about the Cologne attack? "Surely you don't think the troublemaker immigrants to Germany want to displace German culture?" And she snorted. I replied that that is precisely one of the aims and the first lesson is to make women fearful. Up to that point I had considered her a very good thinker and analyser, but not now with her so-what attitude.

But what about there families?

I remember watching an interview with the piano man of Syria, as he came to Europe , apparently he was famous on you tube for playing the piano in the bomb out streets of his home town. But he now fled because it had got so bad.

I felt so sorry for him, until he said yes once I am settled somewhere and have a home then hopefully I can bring my family over (I believe he said wife and children but I cannot be remember 100% now)

I remember losing all my pitty for him, I couldn't believe he would leave his family in a war torn city and just save himself.

Of course many many people are fleeing war zones. Many many people only want a safe place to live. But when you have a mass uncontrolled influx of people it is impossible to police who is a genuine refugee and who has turned up from anywhere in the hope of getting into Europe. We have a duty to help temporarily those fleeing war zones. We don't have a duty to just house everyone from any country who happens to turn up here. Everyone has a duty to abide by the rules of the country they live in, refugee or not.

Human rights apply to all humans. I fundamentally believe this, but it is complex in reality. Whose rights trump when there is a conflict of interests? Take FGM for example. Is imposing a ban on mutilating female reproductive organs an infringement on the human rights of certain communities? Would banning Internet porn infringe on freedom of speech / 'artistic' expression / commercial enterprise?

Policy-making / politics is a battle for finite resources. The most vulnerable members of global society usually loose out. Those who shout loudest and create most trouble often win. Women are most often the more vulnerable gender and don't all that often make their voices heard in a way that cannot be ignored.

Sorry that was for LunaLodbrok

I am not 'automatically linking' the assaults to men of a certain culture, the victims are. Yes it's not all of them. It never is, NAMALT as they say. But deliberately bringing in large numbers of single men from misogynistic cultures is asking for trouble. We already have trouble from our own. I see no reason to bring more.

Why not admit only the women and children refugees?

Luna I'm not going to get into an argument of the status of these refugees are but can I remind you that it was you who said " but people leaving Syria often leave in families and come to Europe as a family unit".

As for what I would do in that situation, well as I am a woman and quite elderly and unwell I would not be able to make the journey so I would most probably be killed.

Thank God I am not in that position and I pray for anyone who is.