Mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Years Eve

[Cellardoor1]

I've just read this and I'm shocked that such a thing could happen. A group of around 1,000 men gathered and assaulted at least 60 women and girls and also pickpocketed people. Apparently the news wasn't released until now out of fears it could stir up tension as the men appeared to be of Arab/North African appearance, possibly refugees.

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/cologne-police-chief-condemns-sex-assaults-years-eve-36083833

Uglyswan - thank you for your post of 10:28.

This:
The Council of Europe Convention on preventing and combating violence against women and domestic violence has not been ratified by Germany because sexual assault and rape are defined as taking place only if force is used, violence is threatened or the victim is unprotected and at the mercy of the perpetrator. To put it bluntly, no doesn't mean no in Germany. No isn't enough - you have to prove force or helplessness.

Where the hell are the op-ed pieces in the quality papers or the BBC discussing this? It would be completely wrong to make the mistake (as was made in Rotherham) of pretending the situation in Cologne was not motivated by cultural beliefs about women. But it's equally wrong to ignore the fact that the German penal code is grossly inadequate when it comes to dealing with sexual assault, and that the police response is stuck decades behind the time (I'm being reminded, and not in a good way, of being present during police interviews with a friend after she'd been raped back in the mid 1980s - the police leant on her very heavily to drop the complaint on the grounds that she wouldn't stand up under cross-examination, despite it being almost the perfect "acceptable even to a misogynist" rape - stranger rape of girl in sensible flat shoes and tweed skirt on her way home from lectures, victim had no previous sexual experience).

That is shocking about the lack of protection against sexual assault. I really thought womens rights were well protected in Germany. I've only known 2 German women, I've got to say they both came across as strong women, both worked outside the home.
Just a suggestion, it might be worth discussing this on the feminist board.

I think Luna must have missed the thousands of lone young men entering Europe recently but people leaving Syria often leave in families and come to Europe as a family unit and we all know that the recent spate of refugees did not come from Syria alone, or maybe that is me just being hysterical.

I think it worth discussing in chat, there are many women who wouldn't stray onto the feminist boards. But would certainly be surprised and interested in these things.

Anonoo What sinister ends?

• to keep pushing our laws and policies toward equality, fairness and justice wrt sexual assault (and other things)?
• to ask our governments to ensure that anyone (whoever they are) who lives in our communities respects and adheres to these both formal and informal, community-based policies and laws?
• to demand that our politicians stop meddling in other countries for their own self-serving ends?
• to require that no citizen is left to flounder, without a long-term plan of how they can be the best citizen that they can be during their lifetime?

It's impossible to partition the issues involved here - gender, sexuality, race, social status, wealth. You can't have a discussion about sexual violence without also discussing these issues because each person is all of these all at once.

hysterical

what over a hundred women reported being sexually assaulted and two women reported being raped

and we are being hysterical

it is outrageous the way this has been reported fear of fuelling the right and fear of offending yet little thought given to the victims

large groups of men (and also women but we do not tend to be as destructive) who have nothing to do, feel displaced is dangerous for society it does not matter what background they are from. On top of this are often cultural issues, deep rooted misogynistic views, the opinion that western (non muslim) women are not as worthy as muslim women, and anger that many will no doubt be feeling

how could there not be issues and now they are beginning to arise they have to be dealt with not ignored

Igneococcus what German parenting board are you on? I've tried to find something German based like MN but the only for a I have found are about quilting and hand wattling your child's playthings

What makes me even more verarscht about that policeman's comment is that the neo Nazi demonstration in Cologne yesterday had dozens of police attending.

16 suspects last I looked....

"It's impossible to partition the issues involved here - gender, sexuality, race, social status, wealth. You can't have a discussion about sexual violence without also discussing these issues because each person is all of these all at once."

Very well put indeed, thank you four. There have been many brilliant posts on this thread, spirited and insightful. I wish our countries were represented by politicians with the same attitude and abilities.

Onthephone quilting can be subversive
subversivestitch.blogspot.co.uk

(...) There's a lot to change in our society and some things I'd get rid of like a shot but when pitted against everything else, our ideas are better than other beliefs at the moment until someone comes up with something better (yes, they really, really are, for the relativists and constructionists out there) and I do not want to spend my time reinventing the wheel and telling flat-earthers that women are actually not on par with livestock and should not only be looking after children and never leaving the home. (...)

Hmm, that's almost exactly what I said later in my post, although much less eloquently. Not sure why you only bothered to quote the first sentence. I agree with you on pretty much everything. I just think it's really important to not alienate all the well integrated immigrants by stating that xyz cultural group is generally unwilling to become a part of our society.
I have a couple of perfectly integrated Turkish friends who are probably some of their cultural groups sharpest critics, but even they are getting tired of always having to emphasize that yes, they really do believe in equality, don't hold extreme religious views, have been to uni and actually hold down professional jobs.

Uglyswan, comparing Cologne to the Oktoberfest ist just not on. The Oktoberfest has around 6.5 million visitors every year. In 2014 two rapes were reported. In Cologne two rapes were reported in one night with around 1000 men gathering on the Domplatte. In both cases the real numbers are probably much higher, but it does show that the two are just not comparable.

At the Oktoberfest you do not get groups of men ganging up on you to grope or rape you and steal your valuables. I have been there lots of times, often pretty drunk and sometimes walking home alone afterwards. If you feel threatened by a man there will be loads of men and plenty of security and police willing and able to help you rather than a mob basically cheering on the perpetrator.

I'm not saying there isn't sexual violence and plenty of inappropriate behaviour from men at the Oktoberfest. There is far too much, no doubt about it. But what happened in Cologne is in a different league and minimizing it isn't helping anyone, especially not the many law-abiding refugees and immigrants who will be viewed with increasing suspicions if these problems can't be openly discussed.

Here's a very depressing leaked internal police report for those who speak German:
www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/koeln-das-steht-im-internen-polizeibericht-zur-silvesternacht-a-1070837.html

At the danger of sounding like a broken record, I would still like to somewhat defend the police. I really don't think any of this is mainly their fault. They are underfunded, overworked, ill-equipped and demotivated. The fault lies mostly with our politicians. Also as stated previously, I'm entirely sure that in other parts of Germany the police response would have been a lot better. Thankfully I feel really safe in Munich and there are no areas I would be sacred of going to at night. I think my friends would all say the same. Some cities do manage to protect women a lot better than Cologne, so it obviously can be done.

It's impossible to partition the issues involved here - gender, sexuality, race, social status, wealth. You can't have a discussion about sexual violence without also discussing these issues because each person is all of these all at once.

I completely agree with this.

onthephone it's called rund ums baby and I usually go to the Forum aktuell. It used to be quite good but it has really gone downhill over the last few years.
I would do a link but I'm on my phone.

Again, my point is not "but white men do it too" and I am not minimising this. My point is that this is the first time ever that violence against women has been taken seriously by the German press and German politicians. To suggest that this is the only case that deserves serious discussion -because it is more "evil", does more to "normalise violence", is an "attack on our values" - to allow this to be dragged into a discussion about immigration while ignoring the less concerted, less organised attacks on women's safety and integrity is to do women in this country a great disservice. If the only response to these attacks is to crack down on immigration, we will have missed the opportunity of effecting any change whatsoever in how the German legal system safeguards (or rather fails to safeguard) women's rights.

www.rund-ums-baby.de/aktuell/

there you go.
but it is not really worth it, igneococcus is right.

There is a rather galling story in today's Telegraph about the incident. Apparently, at one point, senior police though there could be fatalities.

"But the leaked police report, published in Bild newspaper and Spiegel, a news magazine, claims that one of those involved told officers: “I am Syrian. You have to treat me kindly. Mrs Merkel invited me.”

Another tore up his residence permit before the eyes of police, and told them: “You can’t do anything to me, I can get a new one tomorrow.”

“Many women came to officers shocked and crying and reported sex assaults. Police forces were unable to respond to all the events, assaults and offences. There were just too many at the same time.”

More than 150 women have filed criminal complaints, three-quarters of them for sexual assault. Two cases of rape have been reported.

Telegraph piece

My mother's family were political refugees to Britain (they had no money when they arrived and my grandfather couldn't speak English). DH is also from a Commonwealth immigrant family. I have also lived and worked in non-European countries, so I have a fairly good idea of many of the issues surrounding immigration and asylum, living embedded (i.e. not as an expat) in a different culture and country etc from the perspective of the immigrant/refugee over time.

In all my experience, coming from a refugee background and knowing huge numbers of former refugees and immigrants, there are two things that strike me about the above story.

Genuine refugees do not behave like this -- because they are just too scared of being sent back or their living circumstances worsening. They avoid trouble with the police and keep their heads down.

These people do not seem to have that concern: either because they know they will not be deported or if they are, they believe they can avoid it. They also believe they are above the law.

This is a very dangerous situation for Germany to be in. It's indicative, in these numbers, of an utter breakdown in law and order.

but, uglyswan, I think it IS a new dimension and i feel more threatening by this than by other harassment cases.

of course it calls forth more Media response, a huge carcrash would Do that too, compared with a normal everyday accident.

i agree with you completely, that Sexual harassment and discrimination and Insufficient laws should be discussed, in Focus, chancen.
but right now the # Aufschrei naturalistischen is about this terryfying attack.

Statistics on refugees entering Europe last year data.unhcr.org/mediterranean/regional.php. They are mainly male.

visitor - I have never claimed that this is not a new dimension. The very fact that it was a terrifying concerted and public attack means that it cannot be ignored and swept under the rug by the German public. But what exactly do you want to happen next? Do you actually want any reforms to the legal definition of rape and sexual assault - as suggested by the German Association of Female Lawyers for example? Do you want any changes in how the police handle sexual assault cases? Better funding for shelters, therapy, counselling for victims? Or do you just want less immigration (which will effect women and children too, don't forget)? Because the discussion could still go either way, but not for long, imo.

If there were fewer immigrants requiring support, there'd be more money available for funding womens shelters, counselling and therapy.

The two issues - women's rights and immigration - are inseparable at this point.

From the telegraph article Werk linked to:
"In a separate development that could further stoke public anger, it emerged on Thursday that three Syrians have been arrested in southern Germany on suspicion of the gang rape of two teenage girls on New Year's Eve.
The suspects have been in custody for several days but news of the arrests was kept secret to protect the privacy of the victims because they are minors, prosecutors claimed."

Bloody hell.

Finally the BBC are giving this a bit more attention
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35248601

"If there were fewer immigrants requiring support, there'd be more money available for funding womens shelters, counselling and therapy." Classic hegemonic divide and conquer tactics. The lack of resources for women precedes the refugee crisis.

The lack of resources for women precedes the refugee crisis.

True. And are groups of immigrants in urgent need of socialisation and support going to increase available resources, or reduce them? Do you think women will be prioritised for the limited available resources, or, as appears to be clearly the case, will their needs be pushed towards the back of the queue?

Funds will only be spent on what is deemed politically expedient. Reforms will only take place if their is a public outcry for reforms. Suggesting that funds will be allocated either immigrants or women - you can't have both - is simplistic, dangerous and simply untrue. That is not how public funding works.