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Do you think we have a 'yes' vote to bomb Syria by this evening...?

127 replies

rollonthesummer · 02/12/2015 10:15

Am feeling quite depressed by it all :(

OP posts:
fourmummy · 03/12/2015 06:48

Meryl You show them this:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vince-cable-one-of-40-mps-on-guest-list-for-arms-dealers-dinner-in-london-10026302.html

and ask how many who voted were also in attendance enjoying the hospitality... and then let them come to their own conclusions.

AuntieStella · 03/12/2015 06:51

"How do I explain this to my children?"

What explanation have you given for the pre-existing level of British involvement in the international bombing campaign? Because presenting it as the expansion of this is probably the simplest way. And thanks abraid it'll probably help to point out that we have been bombing since 2014 with no civilian casualties.

The news overnight, which is strikes on oil installations (ie going for the cutting off of the money supply) would show how this is very precisely targeted.

You don't say what age your children are, but CBBC Newsround usually is a good starting point for explaining news stories to children. They also have links to a page written for children about what to do if sad/worried. Also, you might like to look at the post-Bataclan threads about how to tell children about terrorism as that might help with ways to talk about terrorism in ways suitable for children.

Salene · 03/12/2015 06:57

How many innocent lives are going to be lost all because of oil and greed
I'm ashamed to be British today

theunfairersex · 03/12/2015 07:02

An interesting article over at The Guardian :

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/03/cameron-corbyn-terrorist-appeaser-isis-coherent-military-strategy

The role of airstrikes in modern war has barely advanced since the days of Bomber Harris. Bombs destroy buildings and equipment and kill people. They cannot take or hold territory. They cannot secure victory, let alone peace and prosperity.

Air power can be effective in battlefield support for determined ground troops. This may have been the case in Libya and in aiding the Kurdish cause against Isis in Iraq at present. It may have helped contain Isis from straying into non-Sunni territory round Baghdad. But in general it is pointless if not followed up on the ground. Whatever is “degraded” can always be regraded, as Britain showed after the Blitz.

Cameron has no ground troops in Syria – his own or anyone else’s. He has been captivated, like so many prime ministers before him, by the glamour of the air lobby, for whom ground troops are an embarrassing side issue.

AuntieStella · 03/12/2015 07:03

I don't think there's any need for greater shame today than there has been since late 2014 when we started bombing IS.

theunfairersex · 03/12/2015 07:24

Salene, the shame should not to be British. There are many British people that are opposed to our continuing wars which we embarked on after 9/11 when the militant Islamic cause was represented by no more than 200 hard core militants in the Hindu Kush.

Today there are more than 100,000 Islamic Militants all over the world and this is due to ill thought out and frankly stupid decisions by those in power.

Our right wing media in this country enables this by forwarding war propaganda on behalf of the war lobby. If you buy into this media, you are in effect bank rolling the propaganda and the war effort.

If you want to do something positive, or at least help to neutralise this insanity, vote with your pockets. Do not give any money to any Murdoch related company. That means not buying The Sun. Cancel any subscriptions to SKY TV of any kind (there are other options available.)

Remember, over a million people marched against the war in Iraq. There is a huge constituency for truth in the UK. However, you would never know it if you were to watch your TV or read almost any national newspaper published in this country.

Many people opposed to our continuing military escapades are themselves ex service and increasingly serving military personnel. and also a duty to reduce the causes of terrorism, not increase them.

We have a duty to help not put these brave fellow citizens in harms way for the wrong reasons and also a duty to reduce the causes of terrorism, not increase them.

We can only do that by sharing information, writing to our MP's and not giving money to those that militate us to act against our own best interests.

Don't be ashamed. Act rather than feel helpless. Take what action you can to be part of the solution! Do it peacefully and without pride!

Remember, pride goes before a fall!

Smile
MrsDeVere · 03/12/2015 08:36

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squidzin · 03/12/2015 08:48

She's a fucking right winger. She has no place in the Labour party.

She's close mates with evil Alastair Cambell, comes from Aristocracy, she's a back stabber and total narcissist.

fourmummy · 03/12/2015 09:01

In the past week, I've agreed with... Prince Charles (stop selling arms to the Middle East), George Galloway (you can't pretend to be fighting terrorism if you are also covertly supporting it), Katie Hopkins (cut the climate change jaunt, get back to your countries and sort this out) and Donald Trump (get them at source, quit distracting people with climate change while this is going on). Never thought I'd see the day...

Nottodaythankyouorever · 03/12/2015 10:41

She's a fucking right winger. She has no place in the Labour party.

Guessing that you weren't listening when JC talked about broad churches and calls for deselection etc had to stop, then

squidzin · 03/12/2015 13:03

Guessing SC wasn't listening when JC said Bombing Syria is a disastrous idea.

Oh well too late now!

squidzin · 03/12/2015 13:08

I just hope people remember how the Tory party imposed a fictional "Austerity" agenda at the very same time they imposed extortionate military action with no analysis on either account.

Shutthatdoor · 03/12/2015 15:24

Guessing SC wasn't listening when JC said Bombing Syria is a disastrous idea.

It was a free vote.

There will be no deselection.

Do you think JC should have been deselected the 500 times he voted against the whip? Or is that OK?

MrsDeVere · 03/12/2015 15:33

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Shutthatdoor · 03/12/2015 15:47

Hello all - its not really possible for me to keep up with the messages am getting on social media at present, but have just dipped in and seen some discussion about the protest march on Tuesday and also the abusive messages I have been receiving. For what its worth happy to clarify that I have no idea what route the protesters took and if past my house as wasn't in Walthamstow that night (was in parliament) or any reason to believe protest wasn't peaceful, and also no reason to believe any of those who took part in the protest are involved in the abusive messages have been receiving or am now am getting (given I also know many of them personally I would be extremely surprised if so!) I have always defended right to protest and respect those who take a different view on yesterday's vote as well as their right to express that as well as their commitment to Walthamstow - hope many of those who did protest outside my office will be able to come on sunday to discussion on this issue am organising! Am trying to spend today responding to residents as best I can- the press interest in what has happened here notwithstanding - so hope residents will bear with me!

This is Stella post on her FB page. Not sure how what she is saying is misinterpreting what happened at all.

Bubblesinthesummer · 03/12/2015 15:53

Calling for MPs deselection seems to me to be being used as a threat by some and an excuse to bully.

John Mann was on daily politics today saying he was still receiving abuse even after he had said he was voting no.

Jess Philips who also voted no and has written a good piece in Huffington Post about the threats and abuse she has received.

Lobbying is acceptable. Threats and bullying are not. Some can't differentiate.

Kinder politics seems to be going so well...

MrsDeVere · 03/12/2015 16:30

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Funinthesun15 · 03/12/2015 16:45

The abuse that some MPs are getting is quite frankly ridiculous and quote ironic considering the crux of their arguement is that they want peace.

The comments about what Tony Ben would think of his son.

Those thinking Mike Gapes illness is some sort of "karma'

The abuse hurled at Dan Jarvis without people actually checking that he has served his country.

The threats thrown at Liz Kendall

Hillary Benn having his personal safety threatened.

If the majority of a Labour MP constituents said they were for the strikes and they voted no should they be deselected too?

It is all unacceptable and can't see how anyone can say it is quite frankly.

My MP didn't vote the way I would have wanted, but I respect that it was a very tough decision for them to make.

Shutthatdoor · 03/12/2015 16:51

Do you really think the majority of her supporters in this area would have wanted her to vote Yes?

My Labour MP voted Yes. There are no mass calls around here for deselection or abuse being thrown.

They are a good MP and people recognise they represent all of their constituents in matters like this not just members, Labour voters or JC supporters.

It was a free vote.

It would have been a hard decision that they would have thought long about and one I don't envy.

MrsDeVere · 03/12/2015 17:20

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MrsDeVere · 03/12/2015 17:22

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MrsDeVere · 03/12/2015 17:23

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Shutthatdoor · 03/12/2015 17:33

And you know for a fact that this is happening in her constituency?

Well someone from SWP said they were going to call for it at the meeting on Sunday on daily politics today and that there was a lot of support for it.

As for the abuse if you have a look at her SM yes there is a fair amount of it.

Shutthatdoor · 03/12/2015 17:34

So you don't know this area then?

Yes I do. My DH was born and bred there.

Shutthatdoor · 03/12/2015 17:36

Are you suggesting that only labour supporter and JC supporters are against bombing Syria confused

No point to anywhere where I have said that.

The fact that this is being used to make some sort of bizarre point against the Loony Left is an insult to everyone.

Those are your words not mine.