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Man in Saudi Arabia to face 300+ lashes for possessing alcohol

144 replies

HermioneWeasley · 13/10/2015 19:36

Clearly this is an insane and barbaric punishment, particularly on top of 12 months in prison.

But part of me thinks that if you choose to live in such a repulsive regime and break the law, don't you have to accept it?

Should the British government intervene in another country's sanctions?

OP posts:
Canyouforgiveher · 16/10/2015 20:53

There is no irony Lauren unless you think women are in the same legal position as children.

the letter of consent for children is to make sure a child isn't being removed from a country without both parents'/guardians' consent. The letter for the wife in SA is for the same reason - to make sure she doesn't leave without her guardian's consent.

Lauren15 · 16/10/2015 21:07

Muslim wives are not supposed to travel without their husband's consent. In the country I was living, passport officers technically can ask a married woman for a letter from her husband. In reality they don't because it's seen as anarchic.
Last time I arrived back in the UK, I was told by the passport officer I needed a letter from dh to prove the children were mine, even though they were old enough to confirm that l'm their mum.

TessDurbeyfield · 16/10/2015 21:49

Yes Lauren but if your DH had been travelling with the children then they would have asked him for a letter from you to show they weren't being abducted. Ditto if if they had two mothers or two fathers. I.e. it is not about enforcing male control of the wife, it is about ensuring that parents (of whatever gender) and children are not deprived of their life together through child abduction. Surely you can see the difference?

Lauren15 · 16/10/2015 22:26

Erm....no. He's never been asked for a letter in the last 16 years since ds1 was born. As our dps live in different countries we frequently travel separately with the kids and it's only been me who has been questioned and only in the U.K. To reiterate I haven't been questioned about custody, I've been questioned about whether the three children I gave birth to are mine! All because I didn't change my name.

Canyouforgiveher · 17/10/2015 01:13

Lauren, like you, I didn't change my name. I frequently travel with my children on my own (including through the UK) and have never been asked for a letter. What does that mean about prevailing attitudes to women or legal realities? Precisely nothing.

Your anecdote abut traveling with under age children adds no insight to the reality of saudi arabian women not being legally allowed to travel without their husband's consent.

TessDurbeyfield · 17/10/2015 09:21

Yes - the law is that children cannot be taken out of the country without the permission of everyone with parental responsibility BUT there is no rule that that has to be in writing. That means it is not 'illegal' to travel without a letter but they do check from time to time as part of combating child abduction. It so happens you have been checked but Canyou and your DH haven't. So it is a gender neutral rule that is designed to protect children from being abducted. I know they both involve pieces of paper and airports but surely you can see it is different from a gender specific rule that infantalises women?

TheStripyGruffalo · 19/10/2015 19:03

We can't expect people to come here and adhere to our laws if we don't do the same when we are abroad.

ApricotSorbet99 · 20/10/2015 11:26

Some of these comments - including the OP - are a fucking disgrace.

The issue is not that he broke the law - it's that he's being FLOGGED.

If he was stuck in prison, or fined or whatever, then OK. He broke a law of the land.

But he is being FLOGGED. This is barbaric and inhuman and you, OP, are conflicted because "he knew what the law was" which is not the fucking point.

No doubt you feel that this is their culture, just the way they do things, right?

In other words, you expect less of them than you do of us. Know what that's called?

Cruel, barbaric punishments must be opposed wherever and whyever they happen. To make ANY excuse, OP, as you have done, makes you as bad as them morally.

So think the fuck on.

RavennaWorsley · 21/10/2015 17:05

It's now being said that the young man facing beheading and crucifixion will now no longer be executed, although nothing has been confirmed yet.

VikingVolva · 21/10/2015 17:32

Wiki lists 33 countries with judicial corporal punishment

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_corporal_punishment

Some, like Antigua, Bahamas, Barbados, Malaysia, Singapore are mainstream holiday destinations.

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 21/10/2015 18:43

I hope that's the case Ravenna I look at my 17 year old and cant bear the thought. So sad.

crabbiearses · 24/10/2015 10:47

i dont agree with their laws and way of living, however he knew the rules and chose to live there and break their laws, he knew what would happen if he was caught.

BreakWindandFire · 24/10/2015 11:56

On a related note, a fantastic (but harrowing) report in today's Guardian about Filipino domestic workers held as slaves in Saudi and murdered with impunity.

hackmum · 24/10/2015 18:34

I read that, BreakWindandFire. An excellent read, but absolutely horrifying. Basically, no-one in authority cares about people who are poor, so it doesn't matter if they are abused, beaten, raped, tortured or even murdered: the rich bastards who do it get away with it and the families of those who are killed just have to put up with it. Absolutely disgraceful.

datop · 28/10/2015 07:09

Good job it wasn't a woman.

He's a man, he can man up and suck it up. Right feminists?

CallaLilli · 28/10/2015 13:57

Oh fuck off goady fucker, if you RTFT you'd see that most posters said it was a brutal punishment. Nothing to do with feminists.

redstrawberry10 · 28/10/2015 15:24

We can't expect people to come here and adhere to our laws if we don't do the same when we are abroad.

there are two separate issues here. Did someone break the law of a country and is that person getting due process and receiving the standard punishment? It sounds like yes here (although SA is known to have rather speedy trials in such cases).

The other question is whether such a punishment is reasonable. The answer of course is no.

redstrawberry10 · 28/10/2015 15:50

lovely legal system. So, you can flout the law if you from a wealthy nation, but not if you are a nanny from a poorer nation.

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