Man in Saudi Arabia to face 300+ lashes for possessing alcohol

[HermioneWeasley]

Clearly this is an insane and barbaric punishment, particularly on top of 12 months in prison.

But part of me thinks that if you choose to live in such a repulsive regime and break the law, don't you have to accept it?

Should the British government intervene in another country's sanctions?

Oh no. That poor boy, surely that won't really happen will it? I am looking for a petition, it's beyond barbaric. With regard to the man with the alcohol, was it in the car boot? That's what I heard, is that an offence? - sorry I sound proper thick! I don't know much about overseas law

"David Cameron will do nothing about it though"

Other than cancelling the British bid for a major contract for Saudi jails? They moved from behind the scenes, to open action today. (It'll stick in the craw of many MNetters, but Gove was right all along) And making high level representations, with the FCO on the case all along?

There's only so much you can do when asking for clemency though.

Petition on change.org But I can't do links on this crappy phone, not a lot of signature and not sure what it will achieve... but I have signed.

I can't bear thinking about it. I have a 17 year old DS. So awful.

Farahilda, what about the UNHCR though, what is it there for and why do the Saudi's want to lead it and why do we sit along the Saudi's and allow them to be part of it if they won't allow clemency on the most outrageous, barbaric punishments. Surely it makes a mockery of the whole thing if members will not hold the Saudi's to account?

Any country where the culture includes such barbaric practices such as whipping people and beheading, are nothing more than Savages.

They need educating - on how to be more humane.

Is it even possible to teach a nation how to be humane?

fly they are the descendants of hill tribes who felt the Ottoman Empire wasn't Islamic enough. They follow the most extreme interpretation of a dark ages religion founded by a warlord.

No, I don't think you can teach them to be humane.

That poor, poor boy.
There must be something somebody can do!
It makes my blood run cold to think of what they are going to do (or already have) done to him.

We are so lucky we live in a civilized society.
We should try and preserve our ways as much as possible.

If the headline had been "Foreigner caught manufacturing and transporting illegal drug" how would you feel about it.

The UNHCR is the bit of the UN which deals with refugees.

Do you mean the OHCHR? The membership and presidency (like most bits of the UN) rotates (voted on by UNGA, isn't it?) and there always seems to be all sorts of (interdependent) power plays about appointments. A country gets the presidency for only one year, which does not give time either to push through or to block measures.

I'd like to see fairly sweeping reform of the UN. Much of it is sclerotic.

The strict religious laws (and police) within Saudi Arabia goes back centuries, and anyone who chooses to live there, or even just visit, are very aware of them.

I don't know about now, but it used to be a bit of a game trying to smuggle bottles of spirit/beer kits into some Muslim states e.g. Kuwait, and if you were caught by customs and saying that it was for personal 'medicinal reasons' didn't work, they would just lift it.

Sometimes it was better to take brand lesser quality bottles as gifts to expats there, to increase the success ratio, as you never knew who would end up using it e.g. choosy customs officers.

But NO ONE ever tried that going into Saudi Arabia, where luggage was searched and even if a book cover somehow offended, meant it was confiscated.

Jeddah being on the Red Sea and full of palm trees to many even feels like a holiday location, but you just have to get used to 'cocktails' etc have no booze within.

I feel very sad for this gentleman for several reasons, the lashes being the most obvious, but anyone needing to remain in the tax free (still?) Saudi Arabia into their mid 70's totally missing a tipple they could have at any time here during retirement - has to be for financial reasons, and there are clues that is so.

Islam in Saudi Arabia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Saudi_Arabia

In the 18th century, a pact between Islamic preacher Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab and a regional emir, Muhammad bin Saud, brought a fiercely puritanical strain of Sunni Islam first to theNajd region and then to the Arabian Peninsula. Referred to by supporters as "Salafism" and by others as "Wahhabism", this interpretation of Islam became the state religion and interpretation of Islam espoused by Muhammad bin Saud and his successors (the Al Saud family), who eventually created the modern kingdom of Saudi Arabia in 1932.

Wahhabism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

I would suspect that having found stuff in his car, after the 1-year jail term he has already served, the mention of lashes now is to GET the UK authorities to intervene - and the deal they want to strike is to DEPORT him, WITHOUT corporal punishment.

God willing.

lashes?

he'll surely be flayed alive wont he?

If the headline had been "Foreigner caught manufacturing and transporting illegal drug" how would you feel about it

it's a fair point, most of us think of wine drinking as a normal everyday thing, but essentially he was manufacturing and transporting an illegal drug

Barbaric. I fail to see how anyone in their right mind can think this is acceptable. And for what? It's not like he killed someone. Wrong on every level. Thank goodness the majority of the world is not like this.

My husband is very good friends with his son and the whole thing is just hideous. Obviously we have been reading all the news reports since last night and lots of people have no sympathy at all for him. He's served his time in prison (and extra) but the lashes just seem barbaric.

Of course he shouldn't have done it. I think he and is family are fully aware of that now. But he's already served his ridiculous sentence. The lashes are just fucking barbaric.

bearleft I completely agree with you. Saudi should be no part of the UN. It's become unfit for purpose in my view.

it's hideous, sickening and primative

Countries have their own customs/laws, it is a fact of life, if everyone in Saudi Arabia was poor with no life chances mobility it COULD be deemed unacceptable by those outside - but they are not, far from it, and people chose to live/work there to make a nice living that can fund a mortgage free home in the west and/or retirement.

It is really too much to ask that those inside live by their laws e.g. don't poison themselves with alcohol, as if they do, they can have a nice life?

I'd suggest many countries don't agree with the UK's drink laws and a society that lets its people drink themselves legless in public places, end up it gutters - and then become anti socials problems for the emergency services,taking vital funds/resources from those services.

To them, a society with women covering their heads, rather than drunk, drooling, while lying in the streets with their legs-akimbo, is FAR more civilized.

Why don't WE change a 'cafe culture' law passed over a decade ago affecting the masses, instead of telling Saudi Arabia that they have to change the founding laws of their State - that affect the very few who fall foul of those well flagged laws?

You do realise there is an option for women that falls somewhere between covering yourself in a burka and lying drooling in the gutter, don't you?

Calla you forgot to add the all important legs akimbo to 'lying drooling in the gutter'!

Yes, of course he was stupid to break the law. He had been in Saudi for a very long time, and he knew the score. More fool him.

But you have to be completely devoid of compassion if you think that it's ok for a 74 year old man to face lashes because he brought it on himself. Regardless of the crime, it is a barbaric punishment, and yes I would say the same if it were any other illegal drug.

The Saudi record on human rights is appalling, but we repeatedly turn a blind eye because we want to trade with them. This case has hit the news because it centres around a British citizen, but what about all the others? What about that poor 17 year old boy, whose only crime is to protest against a brutal and barbaric government.

We cannot keep pretending that we don't see.

Why don't WE change a 'cafe culture' law passed over a decade ago affecting the masses, instead of telling Saudi Arabia that they have to change the founding laws of their State.

I don't care if it is a founding law of their state, crucifixion and beheading is an absolutely brutal punishment and has no place in the 21st century. A little different from a cafe culture law.

CallaLilli ... You do realise there is an option for women that falls somewhere between covering yourself in a burka and lying drooling in the gutter, don't you?

Well you wouldn't know it in most towns/cities come closing time.

The point is, we have our alcohol laws, they have theirs, and who are better off i.e. culturally and long term health issues?

Cerseirys........ I don't care if it is a founding law of their state,

Well they don't give a rats tail what you think, you have something in common.

Oh yes, and been to every single town and city in the UK then to see all these drunken strumpets cavorting? Keep clenching those pearls...