Mass shooting in my state

[Terramirabilis]

Another mass shooting in the US and this one is close to home. Local media are saying 13 students dead and 20+ injured. When are people going to see sense on gun control. I just don't understand this.

twitter.com/hashtag/UCCShooting?src=hash

www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence?CMP=share_btn_tw

994 mass shootings in 1004 days.

This doesn't count any incident with less than 4 people being shot :(

"The firearm related death rate per 100,000 of population are"

somewhat irrelevant.

Firearm deaths include large numbers of people killing themselves.

As I said, the actual murder rate in the US is lower for whites than in the UK, but higher for blacks.

If you are going to be murdered, the choice of weapon doesn't really matter, as you are dead.

From the UN Global Study on Homicide:

Murder rate per 100,000 population
USA 4.7
UK 1.0

This is from all causes not just guns, but excludes suicides and accidents.

I am astonished that RickRoll would refer to the "average" American and British person as being white.
Seems to rate my life or death, as a BME woman, to be less important than that of a white British Mumsnetter.

But many US whites are very casual / callous about African-American deaths, especially the hundreds, maybe thousands, slaughtered annually by police.

"I am astonished that RickRoll would refer to the "average" American and British person as being white.
"

Statistically it's true. Most Americans are white. Most British people are white.

Murder rates are much higher for blacks than whites both in the UK and the US.

The idea that this has something to do with the police shows a staggering lack of perception.

The different murder rates do NOT include all the racist killings by police because they are not counted as murders.
I'm saying the US murder rate would be even higher if the murders by those fucking racist scum were included in the figures

This graphic from the Economist of the murder rate for USA, UK and some other OECD countries shows clearly those with and without guns:

Saying "most" are white is true.
But posting "average, i.e. white" is insulting to those of us who are not white and I reported that post

The statistics for white US victims often wrongly quote justthe FBI's single victim/single offender murder statistics.

However, that ignores the huge number of mass killings, which are comparatively rare in the UK.

So, e.g. for 2011, there were 5,825 white murder victims in TOTAL in a white population of 245.5 million, so an intentional homicide rate of 2.37 per 100,000

How is it insulting? The average American is a 40-year-old white female. That's statistical fact.

The number of police killings per year in the US is around 0.3 per 100,000 population, and in the UK around 0.1 per 100,000 population. It doesn't change things a great deal.

I don't understand the mentality behind American gun laws at all. Surely people who believe their right to carry guns is more important than a children's right to life are the very last people who should be allowed anywhere near a gun .

I don't know how anyone can try and say we are in the UK as trigger happy as the US. Scary facts...

Fact: In the first 24 days of 2015, police in the US fatally shot more people than police did in England and Wales, combined, over the past 24 years

The US population is roughly six times that of England and Wales. According to the World Bank, the US has a per capita intentional homicide rate five times that of the UK.

Fact: There has been just one fatal shooting by Icelandic police in the country’s 71-year history. The city of Stockton, California – with 25,000 fewer residents than all of Iceland combined – had three fatal encounters in the first five months of 2015.

Fact: Police in Canada average 25 fatal shooting a year. In California, a state just 10% more populous than Canada, police in 2015 have fatally shot nearly three times as many people in just five months.

Fact: Police fired 17 bullets at Antonio Zambrano-Montes, who was “armed” with a rock. That’s nearly three times what police in Finland are reported to have fired during all of 2013.

If you are going to be murdered, the choice of weapon doesn't really matter, as you are dead.

But you're going to murder a firearm makes it much easier to kill multiple victims quickly - it's why the military use them!!

If you had to run down & stab each victim it would take longer & there's more chance of people standing up to you & taking you down.

MN is primarily UK based, you'll never convince most people that American gun laws are anything but daft no matter how many stats you pull out of your arse quote......

I'm just saying that the average Briton is more likely to be murdered than the average American, regardless of weapon. Again, I don't see that it matters that you were one of 10 or the sole victim, if you are dead.

Again, I don't see that it matters that you were one of 10 or the sole victim, if you are dead.

You're either being disingenuous or missing the point totally.

It's not about the victims per se, it's about facilitating the murderer and making their job easier.

I would imagine that there are a damn sight more multiple killings in those stats for the US than the UK, meaning the victim/murderer ratio is being helped by guns.

"The average Briton is more likely to be murdered than the average American"

Is that true?

I'm just saying that the average Briton is more likely to be murdered than the average American, regardless of weapon.

I'd like to know how you draw that conclusion, since the murder rate in the US is so much higher than in the UK.

Are you arguing that a massive proportion of US murders are gang/drug related, which I'm sure they are, but I think there is a fair proportion of gang/drug related murders in the UK as well.

I read somewhere that the number of victims per incident has gone up - ie. the killers are getting more efficient.

I suspect violent video games are involved but will no doubt get flamed for that. I know violent video games don't make one a killer (although why anyone would enjoy violence even if it's imaginary, I don't know) but first person shooter type games would be good practice if you did want to kill...

"Is that true?"

Yes, it is. If you compare white Americans with white British, both of which are the majority group in their respective countries, the number of victims of homicide is lower in America.

Basically, in both the US and the UK black people are far more likely to be victims of homicide (8x more in the US, 4x more in the UK), but in the UK the black population is relatively much smaller, so this has a small effect on the stats (3% black in the UK vs. 12% in the US)

RickRoll

And how do the statics compare when you look at murdered poor people vs murdered prosperous people?

I don't know where you get your figures from Rick that you are more likely to be murdered in the UK than in the US. This is taken from The Economist -

First, don’t live in the Americas or Africa, where murder rates (one in 6,100 and one in 8,000 respectively) are more than four times as high as the rest of the world. Western Europe and East Asia are the safest regions. And the safest countries? Liechtenstein recorded no murders at all in 2012, but its population could fit in a football stadium. Among those countries whose populations number in millions, the safest is Singapore, which clocked up just 11 murders in 2012, or one killing per 480,000 people. In Honduras, the world’s most violent country, one in every 1,100 residents was killed.

dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com/This is an interesting read.

In that article, after explaining very carefully how the facts and figures are made up, the conclusion drawn is this -

You are thus 4.03x (4.6 / 1.14) more likely to be murdered in the US than in the UK.

I am not sure why you are differentiating between black and white people.

You are thus 35.2x (3.17 / 0.09) more likely to be shot dead in the US than in the UK.

"I am not sure why you are differentiating between black and white people."

Because black people are much more likely to be killed, both in the US and the UK.

"You are thus 4.03x (4.6 / 1.14) more likely to be murdered in the US than in the UK."

That's a ridiculous statement.

'you' might be more likely to be murdered in the US, because 'you' are a tourist in the wrong part of Miami, as opposed to your home in England in rural Gloucestershire.

There is overwhelming statistical evidence that black people are far more likely to be killed than other races (not just white, homicide rates for Asians are lower still). If you compare like for like, the murder rate for all groups EXCEPT blacks, is lower in the US.

What with all races being equal and all that, until you look at the overall figures it's irrelevant what lower percentages of 'lucky' white people get killed vs black people.

It's quite obvious that the US has a serious issue with guns and the homicide levels are way beyond those of pretty much all the other developed countries.

Are black people that live in America not Americans? Why are you discounting them. I am sure people from poorer backgrounds have a higher death rate too. So bascially what I see you doing is removing any groups of people who have a higher risk of being killed in order to pretend that the US has the same murder rate as the UK.