Do you think now the world has it's eyes opened to the true horror unfolding in Syria, they will now actually do something about ISIS?

[Whoknewitcouldbeso]

I know efforts are being made by some nations to try and counteract ISIS with the aid of drones and counter intelligence but I wonder if the refugee crisis may serve to instigate some direct action by more of the World's heavyweights?

I have just read the story of how Aylan's father has traveled back to Kobane to bury his family and has no intention of leaving the country again. It is his home and he was only leaving to try and save his family after 11 of his extended family were murdered by ISIS. There has been so much talk about migrants and asylum seekers and trying to help those who are fleeing, but most of these people would not be fleeing if it wasn't for the fact that they fear for their lives.

Surely we should be doing more to make their own country safe or do you think that's not possible and the only solution is to allow the ethnic cleansing to carry on taking place.

'world leaders descending on New York for the United Nations General Assembly are closer to agreeing that Assad can stay.'

Assad won and survived a combined funded, backed Jihadi terrorist war against his soveriegn government which was carried on for 5 years. As Frederick Forsyth said, Assad had won back in 2013, but the Jihadi backers refused to change policy and still tried to topple Assad which continued the suffering of the Syrian people. Now Germany has told them to stop it and it will finally be all over.

And this was what Cameron said just a few weeks ago

"David Cameron has said “hard military force” will be needed to remove President Bashar al-Assad from power in Syria and to defeat Islamic State."

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/09/david-cameron-says-hard-military-force-needed-to-tackle-assad-and-isis

Cameron said Juncker should not be elected and he said Assad should be removed using "hard military force". He wanted to bomb Syria, against Farage's advice. He bombed Libya, against Farage's advice. What has he got right on foreign policy? Who advises him on foreign policy? How come he gets it wrong so often and can't see what everyone else can see and says that Assad needs to be removed by "hard military force" just weeks before world leaders start talking about leaving Assad where he is?

This is what the former head of British armed forces said

In a scathing attack on Cameron's record on Libya and Syria, General Sir David Richards, ex-chief of the defence staff, said the Prime Minister was more interested in pursuing a "Notting Hill liberal agenda" than showing serious "statecraft". Richards was backed by Britain's spy chief, who delivered an astonishing personal slap-down to Cameron in a bitter Downing Street clash over Libya."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3215566/Ex-Army-head-PM-blame-rise-ISIS-Damning-accusation-Chief-Staff-explosive-new-Cameron-biography.html

Claig …. Where have you been for the last week or so, after you were outed as a Putin mouthpiece I was convinced that you had be sent to the ‘Russian Front’, any one of them.

Especially as Russia now has another FAR more important pro Corbyn. pro Sria, anti Cameron, anti western mouthpiece, actually within the UK.

Russian ambassador lavishes praise on Jeremy Corbyn over foreign policy
In unusual intervention, Russian ambassador to Britain criticises David Cameron and praises Jeremy Corbyn's foreign policy

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11881065/Russian-ambassador-lavishes-praise-on-Jeremy-Corbyn-over-foreign-policy.html

Jeremy Corbyn's victory is a “radical breakthrough in British politics”, Russia has said as it attacked David Cameron for claiming that the new Labour leader is a “threat to national security”.

In a breach of diplomatic protocol, Russia’s ambassador in the UK hailed Mr Corbyn’s election and accused the Tories of a “flagrant” attempt to oppose a “democratic process” by criticising the result of Labour’s leadership election.

Alexander Vladimirovich Yakovenko also praised Mr Corbyn’s opposition to British membership of Nato as well as his repeated pledge to reject any attempt by the Government to endorse a military intervention abroad.

So Russia is AGAINST military intervention abroad, Guffaw.

Meanwhile I have never been more proud of Cameron’s stance against the people’s murderer Assad, who from March 2011 has conducted total war against his own moderate Sunni population.

Assad not only should be held to account for his own actions, but as I have said all along can NEVER be part of a PEACEFUL solution; as a President cannot after a 5-year killing spree, clock off bombing them at 5pm on a Sunday, and then claim to represent them 9am on the Monday.

Sept 27th; Syrian Leader Assad Should Face Criminal Trial, Cameron Says
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-27/syrian-leader-assad-should-face-criminal-trial-cameron-says

Bashar al- Assad should face a criminal trial, U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron said, while keeping open the possibility the Syrian president could temporarily remain in power to oversee a transition to a more inclusive government.

Cameron made the comments on Sunday as he flew to New York for the United Nations General Assembly, where he’ll meet with other leaders to discuss possible solutions to the 4 1/2-year conflict that has seen Islamic State take control of parts of the Middle Eastern country and led to an exodus of millions of refugees.

“People who break international law should be subject to international law,” the prime minister told reporters traveling with him. “He’s butchered his own people, he’s helped create this conflict and this migration crisis, he’s one of the great recruiting sergeants for ISIL,” Cameron said, using another term for Islamic State. “He can’t be a part of Syria’s long-term future.”

Internationally the only possible consensus is as first step is to defeat ISIS by ridding Syria of their presence/headquarters, that apparently half of the UK think that we should help with, using more than just air power.

Assad will need to be sorted next, as western leaders will have to listen to Cameron’s voice for 80% of the Syrian people, as any world leader would have to have a significant stake in keeping a 40-years Assad dictatorship in place after what he has done, NOT to get Assad to step down and stand trial for his actions – aided and abetted by Iran.

'“People who break international law should be subject to international law,” the prime minister told reporters traveling with him.'

That is what Corbyn says.

'Assad will need to be sorted next, as western leaders will have to listen to Cameron’s voice for 80% of the Syrian people'

Are you having a laugh? Like they listened to Cameron when he wanted them not to elect Juncker?

If you want to know how the world really works then listen to Merkel and Obama.

Just a few weeks ago Cameron said that Assad needs to be removed with "hard military force", Not many people seem to have listened.

This is what Merkel said a few days ago

"Let’s talk to Syria’s Assad, Merkel says"

www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/09/24/lets-talk-to-syrias-assad-merkel-says/

I predicted that Germany would tell all the backers of the Jihadis to end it and that a political deal would be sorted and that the Germans had probably approached Putin to help them end the war funded by the Jihadi backers.

And while you believed the BBC reports that Germany was willing to keep taking millions of refugees caused by the war funded by the Jihadi backers, I said that in real life German politicians would be telling all the Jihadi backers to end the war and that a deal with Assad would now need to be done in order to save the German political class, the European political class and the entire EU from the voting intentions of ordinary European people who didn't agree with the European political class.

And I also predicted that the European people, the European taxpayer, will have to now pay to rebuild Syria so that the Syrian refugees can return home. Ordinary people all across Europe will have to pay for the war that was caused by the funding of the Jihadi backers. There is no alternative as the entire European political class and the entire EU faces an existential crisis if refugees in these numbers keep arriving in Europe. The European political class knows that their time will be up if the European people don't see a real solution to this and an end to the funded Jihadi war on Syria.

That is why Merkel has said let's talk to Assad and has ignored Cameron who says Assad should be removed with "hard military force".

And if you read between the lines, it looks like the US military at the top level has had enough of this failed strategy and stunned the US political class

"US has trained only 'four or five' Syrian fighters against Isis, top general testifies

Senators appear incredulous and call for a new plan after hearing news that US military’s $500m effort has resulted in training of only a handful of fighters"

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/16/us-military-syrian-isis-fighters

That is why Kerry has been to Europe, probably due to German calls, in order to come up with a political solution that involves talking to Assad and not removing him with "hard military force" as Cameron said had to be done.

And if you read between th elines, it is obvious that Putin is only acting in Syria with the consent of the US. It is obvious that Germany, the US and Russia have done a deal which will end this 5 year funded Jihadi war. There is face-saving in the media by blaming Putin, but it is obvious that he is only acting according to a secret done deal between all of the big players.

"Russia and the United States have reached a "tacit agreement" on ending Syria's bloody crisis, a senior adviser to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has said.

"The current US administration wants to find a solution to the crisis in Syria. There is a tacit agreement between the US and Russia to reach this solution," Bouthaina Shaaban said in an interview with state television late Wednesday."

news.yahoo.com/tacit-deal-between-us-russia-end-syria-war-133934478.html

Some leaders obviously now need lots of face-saving and whether Assad has to step down to save faces depends on how willing Russia is to save faces, but if it does offer to save faces then it will obviously expect something in return over Ukraine. We will have to see how important face saving is to see if concessions over Ukraine to Russia are on the cards.

And the secret instigator of the end of the 5 year Jihadi backed war on Syria is Merkel and Germany. They have had enough and have told all the Jihadi backers it is time to stop it.

Like they listened to Cameron when he wanted them not to elect Juncker?

And as a previous anti Tory anarchist supporting UKIP before Russia saw a better opportunity, you should respect Cameron's/Farage's warning that Juncker was a useless honking EU Federalist - and have since proved to be correct.

Syria's President Assad's dynasty of 40-years with terrible Human Right abuses, culminating on the firing of unarms civilians in march 2011 has killed/displaced more Syrians than ISIS. Fact.

Russia/Merkel can say whatever they want, Cameron/Hollande of France and others are not only stating the obvious, they are doing what is right for the majority of Syrians - there can be no peace as the Sunni population, 4 x that of Assad's Alawites (Shi'ites) - so they will never go back home until either Assad has gone, or the country splits, initially labelled 'safe zones' protected by the U.N.

Let's wait and see what happens. There is a lot of posturing and frantic attempts at face-saving from some leaders, but Hollande is a minor player compared to Merkel. Let's see what happens when the dust settles and the posturing and face-saving is long forgotten.

The refugees will go back to Syria and Europeans will pay for it because anything else threatens the European political class and the EU itself.

Already a Yougov poll out today says that the majority now want to leave the EU. The BBC and the media will not be able to turn the people round and save the political class unless a solution to the war is found and refugees from Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan return to Syria rather than come to Europe.

We will have to see how important face saving is to see if concessions over Ukraine to Russia are on the cards.

Feck off, one is an invasion by Russia, the other is a dodgy regime backed by Russia for 40-years - there can be NO trade off, there will NOT BE a trade off - as two Russian wrongs over two different continents, do NOT make a right.

'Wanting a (Syrian) solution' was the start, one way or another Assad will have to go whether Russia wants it or not, as with sooooo many internal enemies wronged by Assad, it wlll only take one bomb. Imo

Five years this funded Jihadi war against the Syrian government has gone on and only now will Germany end it because of the refugee crisis that threatens the European political class's ability to remain in power.

'there can be NO trade off, there will NOT BE a trade off '

I knew you were naive on politics and economics, but I thought you may have at least had an inkling of understanding about foreign affairs. But now I realise that just like on politics and economics, you haven't got a clue. You don't understand how deals are done and how the world works.

'one way or another Assad will have to go whether Russia wants it or not'

How naive can you get. Russia holds all the cards. Do you think Putin listens to what Cameron insists on? A deal has already been done between the US, Russia and Germany. They decide, the rest is posture. If Russia doesn't want to offer a face-saving fig leaf then it doesn't have to. If it does offer one, then it will name its price. That is how the world works.

According to the Jerusalem Post, not only has Putin not backed down, he's gorn and upped the ante on an interview on US TV before meeting Obama for face to face talks. Putin's taking the Michael.

"Russian President Vladimir Putin on Sunday branded US support for rebel forces in Syria as illegal and ineffective, saying US-trained rebels were leaving to join Islamic State with weapons supplied by Washington.

In an interview with US networks recorded ahead of a meeting with US President Barack Obama, Putin said Syrian President Bashar Assad deserved international support as he was fighting terrorist organizations.

Obama and Putin are scheduled to talk on Monday after Putin addresses the United Nations, although White House and Kremlin officials have disagreed on what the two leaders will discuss and even who initiated the meeting.

"In my opinion, provision of military support to illegal structures runs counter to the principles of modern international law and the United Nations Charter," he said in an excerpt of an interview with US television networks CBS and PBS released by the Kremlin."

www.jpost.com/Middle-East/US-support-for-Syria-rebels-illegal-Putin-says-ahead-of-Obama-meeting-419244

Here is the Spectator Magazine on what is going on

"Bizarrely, Putin is talking more sense on Syria than anyone else

Our Syria plans have been a total shambles – leaving a vacuum for Russia's"

www.spectator.co.uk/features/9643672/putin-and-assad-have-made-fools-of-the-west/

It's not strictly true, because the author seems to have forgotten our greatest statesman, Nigel Farage, but everyone can see what he is getting at.

When you see General Lloyd Austin, commander of US Central Command, taking the Michael openly in front of the political class, you know it is all over and the shambles will come to an end. The military wouldn't take the Michael unless they thought the policy was a shambles.

There was a $500 million dollar budget to train the "moderate rebels" to fight Isis and the rest of the Jihadis. When teh senators asked General Lloyd Austin, he said not many had been trained up. The senators prepared themselves for disappointing figures and hesitantly asked "How many?"

The answer came back

“We’re talking four or five,” General Lloyd Austin, commander of US Central Command, told a dissatisfied Senate armed services committee on Wednesday.

The training initiative is Barack Obama’s linchpin for retaking Syrian territory from Isis."

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/16/us-military-syrian-isis-fighters

The General kept a straight face as the jaws of the political class hit their desks. This was taking the Michael par excellence and gives an indication of what the top military think because of course they can train more than 4 or 5 with a $500 million dollar budget.

Meh, all sides are funded and armed by the same banking cartels/arms companies. For years, there were newspaper articles about how we needed to support the rebels fighting Assad. These are mainly Western interests although Saudi/Iranian funding is definitely involved too.

Demographic collapse of the people they planned to con into going over (mainly due to past fruitless wars) is the only thing hindering them. They don't mind that demographic collapse but they're finding it a bit vexing that noone believes them anymore.

Claig …. re your "Bizarrely, Putin is talking more sense on Syria than anyone else

I heard that Putin “sense” this morning with an interview with a UK TV channel.

Putin said (somehow with a straight face) something like we must support the legitimate regime in Syria where Assad only religiously represents 18% of the population, and oppresses at least 80% of the Syrian (Sunni) population.

Putin clearly does not have the same sense/principle in the Ukraine, grabbing their land for a minority of separatists, many of whom are paid for by Russia and militarily supported by Russia.

Claig …. Despite Assad help from his allies Russia and Iran, he is hanging on to power by his teeth, which is why there were reports his Alawite population was leaving.

”Iran Pays Afghans to Fight for Assad”
www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304908304579564161508613846

”The Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, or IRGC, recruits and trains Shiite militias to fight in Syria. Details of their recruitment efforts were posted this week on a blog focused on Afghan refugees in Iran and confirmed by the office of Grand Ayatollah Mohaghegh Kabuli, an Afghan religious leader in the Iranian holy city of Qom. A member of the IRGC also confirmed the details.”

”Both Iran and Hezbollah have openly taken credit for their efforts in Syria. Gen. Hossein Hamedani, a senior Guards commander involved in planning war strategy in Syria, said last week that with God's help, Iran had trained an extra 130,000 soldiers ready for dispatch.”

So Russia has been fighting a ground war all along, by proxy, using Iran’s mercenaries including the Afghans, who are clearly better soldiers than the Russians as kicked their Soviet arses out of Afghanistan – which is just as well as there are reports that Russian troops would refuse to fight the even nastier ISIS troops.

The only difference now, with the recent build up of Russian helicopter gun ships, planes, and tanks in Alawite controlled Syria - is that Russia is being SEEN to aid Assad's murderous regime, adding the military hardware.

mimishimmi .... re your For years, there were newspaper articles about how we needed to support the rebels fighting Assad.

It would be useful if you looked through a thread, as when those 'rebels' mainly represent over 80% of the Syrian population - who were fired upon when peacefully protesting due to the lack of consumer 'basics' - that would be why.

Human Rights in Syria
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Syria

"The situation for human rights in Syria is considered exceptionally poor among international observers.[1][2] A state of emergency was in effect from 1963 until April 2011, giving security forces sweeping powers of arrest and detention.[2]”

“Arab uprising: Country by country–Syria”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12482309

“The wave of popular unrest that swept the Arab world came late to Syria, but its once peaceful uprising has evolved into a brutal and increasingly sectarian armed conflict.”

“Protests demanding greater freedom and an end to corruption began in the southern city of Deraa in March 2011. After security forces opened fire on demonstrators, more took to the streets. By July 2011, hundreds of thousands of people across the country were attending protests demanding President Bashar al-Assad's resignation.”

Obama in the U.N. is currently making an olive branch as the better way, no nonsense approach if it fails, speech;

The U.N teeth will be improved dramatically in it capabilities to stop country disorder where diplomacy has failed, its citizens dying.

In Syria a similar multi-country alliance WILL be used to tackle ISIS, but Assad just transitionally stays in power now to pass to a new President as he cannot repair the damage HE has done to his own people.

The difference between Sunni Saddam's Iraq being ran by a new non inclusive Shia Iraqi government and the chaos in Libya after Gaddafy Duck was overthrown MUST NOT BE REPEATED in Syria.

Iran supposedly came in from the cold and Russia many think we are heading back to a Cold War can help, but there are peaceful ways to oppose them if they don't, via their economies - so a Obama that Putin thought was week when America set WMD Assad red lines and the UK parliament let Syrian's citizens (and America) down - is facing those that want Assad to stay, down.

As Riftkin said on TV this morning, the U.S. and America 'worked' with Russia's Stalin to fight Nazi Germany - so they'll ally themselves with any Soviet types to get the job done.

I'll reiterate a point that I made much earlier on this thread; Russia will save face in these negotiations if allowed to provide a NEW puppet with less 'stick', swapping an aggressive Sweep, for a benign Sooty, possibly a Judy from a Punch, if you will.

'Thats the way to do-it'

Russia starts an air war against ISIS, by bombing the rebels Assad has been murdering since 2011. Ooops.

"Russia launches first air strikes in Syria, US says as non-Isis rebels claim they are being targeted"
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/russia-launches-first-airstrikes-in-syria-us-says-as-non-isis-rebels-claim-they-are-being-targeted-a6673621.html

The US believes Russia has launched its first airstrikes in Syria just hours after the country’s Parliament approved Vladimir Putin’s request for military intervention.

No further information was given but activists in Homs and Hama provinces have posted images and video online claiming to show Russian planes bombing groups of non-Isis rebels who are fighting Bashar al-Assad’s forces.

The death toll could not be verified but dozens of fatalities were reported, including civilians, and footage showed injured children being treated in Talbiseh, a Free Syrian Army (FSA) stronghold.

This is the Russia that we have had an independent Trident nuclear deterrent to provide security for the UK, just in case a Russia nukes the UK 'by mistake' and all our allies do sod all about it - other than to accept the mistake and say to Putin 'naught boy'.

is this is really scary what will happen next> they have really trod on US toes giving them an hour to get out etc..

could this lead to all out war and wy does russia want to keep assad