Do you think now the world has it's eyes opened to the true horror unfolding in Syria, they will now actually do something about ISIS?

[Whoknewitcouldbeso]

I know efforts are being made by some nations to try and counteract ISIS with the aid of drones and counter intelligence but I wonder if the refugee crisis may serve to instigate some direct action by more of the World's heavyweights?

I have just read the story of how Aylan's father has traveled back to Kobane to bury his family and has no intention of leaving the country again. It is his home and he was only leaving to try and save his family after 11 of his extended family were murdered by ISIS. There has been so much talk about migrants and asylum seekers and trying to help those who are fleeing, but most of these people would not be fleeing if it wasn't for the fact that they fear for their lives.

Surely we should be doing more to make their own country safe or do you think that's not possible and the only solution is to allow the ethnic cleansing to carry on taking place.

Sunny days, Sunni Syrians, the murdering bastard of a President killing you is now being glued into place by those CHAMPIONS OF DEMOCRACY, Russian and Iran - how CAN they poss-ibly refuse to go home?

'Claig I have always enjoyed reading your posts and your sense of humour but don't let your antipathy toward Isitmebut cloud you from the fact they are talking sense'

I don't like Isitmebut because his only debating tactic is to accuse me of being a mouthpiece for Putin, so I think it is time someone challenged his ignorance and showed him up for the bully and buffon he is. But he is not talking sense, and rarely does.

You have to realise that this has only all happened because of the refugeee crisis affecting EU countries. You have to realise that Putin will solve the EU's problem where the 1 year bombing of Isis failed as Isis grew stronger during that period and took even more territory. Secretly, many EU leaders are probably agreing with Putin and some of our own senior Tory MPs, that Assad is part of the solution to end this 4 year Jihadi war of destabilisation and destruction.

'I'm even more concerned now Putin has started bombing the moderate opposition to Assad.'

Jihadis are not "moderate". Shelling and rocketing government forces is not "moderate". If Jihadis were conducting an armed uprising in cities of England, we would expect our government to stamp them out and that is what Assad's ggovernment, witha seat at the UN, is trying to do against the funding and backing of outside countries who are using Jihadis as a proxy force to topple a secular government, whose leader Tony Blair a few years before had wanted to give a knighthood to.

'I think the West needs to start pumping aid into Lebanon and to take refugees from the camps.'

There are over a million refugees there. Europe can't take them. The EU will collapse. Don't believe the BBC, people will vote against this incompetent European political class who has let this problem continue without solving it, and people won't accept a solution of millions of refugees coming to Europe. That is why this is now being ended by Putin, who will end it where the US failed to end it, so that Merkel can solve the EU existential crisis caused by the refugee crisis.

'With regards to Yemen I don't think the Houthis are our enemies they have been fighting Al Quaeda for several years'

So has Assad and the Iranians and Iraqi Shia. They are better than the beheading fundamentalists who threaten not only the region, but Europeans too.

'I do wonder what Putins actions will do to Russian- Turkish relations with both countries vying for influence in the Caucasus'

There are lots of reports that the Turks have been playing a double game, secretly helping Isis and Jihadis and attacking Kurds who are fighting them.
What this means is tha the Turks are now going to have to play ball, because Putin has called everyone's bluff and said are you against Isis and the Jihadis or aren't you and do you want this war stopped or don't you. Putin, the Iranians, Assad and Hexbollah will now win and defeat the Jihadis and Merkel wil breathe a sigh of relief because the Turks were never going to end the war since they have been anti-Assad from the start and it is obvious that after 4 years of funding, the backers of the Jihadis have failed to topple Assad. There comes a point in time when the suffering of millions of people has to take precedence over the political and financiak ambitions of the Jihadi backers. And that time is now because Putin has called their bliuff.

'I'm also concerned about the wider region with Saudi influenced Pakistan and Iranian influences in Afghanistan and increasing good relations between Iran and India.'

US policy has changed and the US have begun the process of bringing Iran in from the cold. They had to do it because the EU had already started the process and were going to continue even if the US didn't join in. But the slow process of bringing Iran back in has begun. It is bad news for the Saudis, the Jihadis and the fundamentalists they fund and back, but it is good news for the people of Europe and the people of the world because the plague of Islamic fundamentalism will begin to decline. Of course it will still be used and turned on for political and geostrategic adbantage by some players but countries like Germany will demand that it ends and so it will.

'I do wonder how different the situation would have been if Bush had engaged in diplomacy with Khatami rather than including Iran in "the axis of evil".'

Yes, it would have been much better, but I think the process of bringing Iran back in out of the cold is slowly beginning now. I don't think the US will oppose the Iranians in Syria or Iraq and if the Saudis try it, then they will be in trouble because the US may not help the Wahhabis any more. We will have tio wait and see what happens. but I doubt there will be any world war over this as I think that behind the scenes, big countries like Germany have agreed that Assad will stay in power and that the Jihadis must be defeated to end teh refugee crisis and to provide stability that will stop the scourge of Wahabbi and Jihadi fundamentalism speading to Europe.

This is what Simon Jenkins wrote in the Guardian

"Why the west should listen to Putin on Syria

Putin is right. Everyone knows Putin is right, that the only way forward in Syria, if not to eternal slaughter, is via the established government of Bashar al-Assad and his Lebanese and Iranian allies."

Of course he is right. Everyone knows it. Merkel knows it, some Tory MPs know it, half the American military and Establishment probably know it and Isitmebut doesn't, but what's new?

Lots of politicians and leaders will now have to save face because only weeks before they were saying Assad had to go, but their face will not be as important as Merkel's need to end this war, solve the refugee crisis and end the suffering of millions of Syrians.

I am very skeptical to why Putin would be inclined to attack Syria on behalf of Europe. Unless he has been promised Eastern Ukraine and the lifting of sanctions in return- but I can't quite see this.

I do agree with you on Turkey. I think they have definitely aided IS and Erdogan is erasing civil liberties for his own people.

I'm incredibly pleased about Iran being brought back into the fold (I have Persian family) but Putin is a megalomaniac and he's going to far I think Iran should start to distance themselves.

With regard to the refugees on Lebanon I was not suggesting we take them all and Europe does not constitute as the whole of the west there's also US, Canada, Brazil etc etc

'I am very skeptical to why Putin would be inclined to attack Syria on behalf of Europe. Unless he has been promised Eastern Ukraine and the lifting of sanctions in return- but I can't quite see this.'

Because the interests of the Russians and most of the Europeans coincide. Mots of the European leaders want stability and an end tothe refugee crisis and Putin wants stability and the survival of a secular Assad/coalition government rather than an Al Qaeda, Isis dominated basketcase as happened in Libya after Cameron and Sarkozy bombed it. The reason that most of the Europeans and Russia want stability is that they don't want the spread of fundamentalism and more immigrants because that will detabilise both Europe, the EU and Russia, since lots of the Isis terrorists are ginger-haired Chechens Muslims from the Caucasus funded by Sunni money. And yes, Putin will expect something in return over Ukraine, but the US probably won't allow that, however it all depends what Merkel does because she needs the refugee crisis solved in order to save the EU from its worst existential crisis ever. But even if Putin gets no concessions on Ukraine, he doesn't care because he will stabilise Syria and stop the fundamentalists.

A Syrian government spokeswoman was on TV last night and said that Assad wanted to negotiate with the opposition before it took up arms against him because he already knew that after Libya, he would be next. The Russians want peaceful moderates to do a deal with Assad, but not rocket throwing, grenading "moderates".

' I think they have definitely aided IS and Erdogan is erasing civil liberties for his own people.'

Yes, but Erdogan is also a politician and weighs up reality and changes position as circumstances change. Putin has called everyone's bluff, so I think Erdogan will have to go along with the new reality for a while.

'Putin is a megalomaniac and he's going to far I think Iran should start to distance themselves.'

That is what the media says, but I don't think he is. He has avoided a Europe wide war by not invading Ukraine en masse. He stooped a wider war by provideing Obama with a face-saving deal that removed chemical weapons from Assad's government. He is a politician, he wants stability not war if he can help it. The US would like Iran to switch sides and to marginalise Putin and we will have to wait and see if that happens. Iran has to take account of its own interest. It wants peace and prosperity but it has to decide who its real friends are longterm. It depends what it decides.

'With regard to the refugees on Lebanon I was not suggesting we take them all and Europe does not constitute as the whole of the west there's also US, Canada, Brazil etc etc'

I don't think it is a moral solution to displace millions of people from their ancestral homelands. We need to defeat the Jihadis, restore stability and find a political solution in conjunction with the current government leader, Assad, and let Syrian people hold elections to see who they want to govern them. That is what Russia wants and I expect it is what Merkel wants and that is why I think that is going to happen.

God god, claig has pressed the 'button', the gloop button - quantity over quality - to move the board on from the points on the previous page - the standard Kremlinbot tactic.

Grazia1984, I apologise for having a go at one of your statements. I misread it and thought it was one of Isitmebut's statements.

Hmmm It just seems convenient that Putin is acting now while the Russian economy is destabilising rather than 4 years ago

Who do you mean by the jihadis claig? IS or someone else? Or is it just another buzz word?

as I fail how to see that if you drop bombs on the populations homes - especially the types of bombs Assad and Putin have been dropping - it is anything but indiscriminate?

And the American bombs over 700 missions have hit no civilians??

America are narked that Russia isn't just bombing ISIS but is bombing all terrorist organisations that are attempting to otherthrow the legitimate government.

The main reason they're narked is because they've been funding and training them.

Funding terrorists to overthrow the government - so you could say that they're pretty responsible for keeping this whole mess going.....

'Hmmm It just seems convenient that Putin is acting now while the Russian economy is destabilising rather than 4 years ago'

I think the Germans may have asked him in secret. He has always been against the Jihadis and their backers but he didn't want to rock the boat with the US by intervening.

I think that what has changed everything is the EU refugee crisis. I think secret deals and talks have probably gone on and he has now decided to act to end the war with Assad's troops, Hezbollah and Iranian volunteers to do the on-the-ground work. I think secretly, many EU leaders will breathe a sigh of relief and some will have to save face.

And the American bombs over 700 missions have hit no civilians??

As mentioned on the previous page, are the Americans using fragmentation and cluster bombs, Russian film SHOWS they are using - more effective fighting a standing army formation as kills everything in its path - like the Orcs, not a civilian population in and around their homes..

'Who do you mean by the jihadis claig?'

I means ome of the following.

This is the Free Syrian Army, among wom I think there may be one or two Jihadis

Syria Revolutionaries Front
Jarabulus Brigade
Al-Qassas Army
Liwa Thuwwar al-Raqqa[55]
Jihad in the Path of God Brigade[56]
Dawn of Freedom Brigades Northern Sun Battalion[57]

Knights of Justice Brigade
Thuwar al-Sham Battalions[58]
Homs/Hama Liberation Movement[59][60]
Shields of the Revolution Council
Falcons of al-Ghab
101st Division
13th Division
16th Division[61][62]
46th Division[63][64]
111th Division[65][66]
Jabhat Ansar al-Islam
Falcons of Mount Zawiya Brigade
1st Infantry Brigade
1st Coastal Division
al-Rahman Legion
Farouq Brigades
New Syrian Forces (30th Division)[67][68]

then there is the Islamic Front who may harbour a Jihadi or two

Islamic Front Ahrar ash-Sham
Jaysh al-Islam
Al-Tawhid Brigade Al-Fawj al-Awal[69]
Northern Storm Brigade

Ansar al-Sham

Junud al-Sham
Abu Amara Battalions[70] Abu Jaafar Battalion[70]

Liwa al-Fatah[71]
Liwa Usud al-Jadoor[72]
Army of Mujahedeen
Authenticity and Development Front Jaysh Usud al-Sharqiya

Harakat Nour al-Din al-Zenki
Fastaqim Kama Umirt
Ajnad al-Sham Islamic Union[73]
Sham Legion[74]
Criterion Brigades
Mustafa Martyrs Brigade
Syrian Turkmen Brigades Sultan Murad Brigade
Sultan Mohamed Fatah Brigade

Muslim Brotherhood of Syria

Then there is the avowed Jihadis

Jihadists: Al-Nusra Front Khorasan Group[116]
Jaish al-Muhajireen wal-Ansar[117]

Jabhat Ansar al-Din[118] Harakat Fajr ash-Sham al-Islamiya
Harakat Sham al-Islam

Ghuraba al-Sham[119]
Fatah al-Islam[120][121][122]
Muhajirin wa-Ansar Alliance[123] Jund al-Aqsa
Liwaa al-Umma
Liwa al-Haqq

Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan[124]
Turkistan Islamic Party[78]
Islamic Muthanna Movement[

and last but not least Al Qaeda, Al Nusra and the beheading butchers, Isis.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armed_groups_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

not a civilian population in and around their homes..

Newsflash, if you use High Explosive it turns the buildings and scenery into fragments - do you seriously think that the Yanks haven't killed as many or more per mission?

Grow Up.

The West is not the Good Guy here, the terrorists we're training aren't any different to ISIS. Some of them were IS, and some will take their training and join IS.

I completely agree Iknow the west are not the *good guys" and bear an incredible amount of responsibility for the situation. This is why I think we should be doing more to try and stabilise the region by assisting Lebanon more and encouraging diplomacy in Yemen.

We should also impose sanctions on those funding terrorists and buying oil from them

Don't forget that this strategy does have risks for Russia. Putin knows that the billionaires and the rich backers of their Jihadi proxies will one day turn the Jihadis on Russia. It is just a matter of time. They would like Russia to be depleted by Jihadi terrorist attacks and face defeat like they received defeat in Afghanistan when the US backed the Muhjahideen.

But longterm Russia has no other option than to try and stamp out the Jihadis now before the billionaires turn them on the Russian people. The billionaire Jihadi backers will now fund Isis and the gang to issue blood-curdling threats in their production videos to Putin and the Russians. But Putin understands the game and knows what they will do.

Putin and Iran and Hezbollah and the Iraqi Shai have no alternative but to combat the funded and backed Jihadis now before they grow stronger and tuen on all of them.

What is different this time is that the backers of the Jihadis are not in the open and they risk the war turning on them in some of their Sunni regions if they go too far and that is why I think they will drop the game and realise that they have been stopped at least for now.

The EU is also concerned because this fundamentalism could also spread to the shores of Europe if it is not stopped, and of course the European people will vote out their incompetent political class unless they are shown to be capable of stopping the rising threat of Islamic fundamentalism reaching Europe and shattering the safety and civilization of the European people.

So the backers of the Jihadis have had an easy run so far, but now their time is up.

IKnowIamBut .... so what I gather from the following below, ALL Sunni Muslims that (did) form 80% of the Syrian population are "terrorists" - there is no difference between the people in heavily populated ISIS area where surgical strikes (that yes go BANG) are undertook to the fragmentation/cluster bombs DESIGNED to kill all in its path dropped by Russia - what an ignorant person you are.

Newsflash, if you use High Explosive it turns the buildings and scenery into fragments - do you seriously think that the Yanks haven't killed as many or more per mission? Grow up

The West is not the Good Guy here, the terrorists we're training aren't any different to ISIS. Some of them were IS, and some will take their training and join IS.

So none of this is true, as if it is, the similarity is between President Assad and ISIS, both of whom are being fought by the 'rebels' Russia are targetting;

“Arab uprising: Country by country – Syria”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12482309

“The wave of popular unrest that swept the Arab world came late to Syria, but its once peaceful uprising has evolved into a brutal and increasingly sectarian armed conflict.”

“Protests demanding greater freedom and an end to corruption began in the southern city of Deraa in March 2011. After security forces opened fire on demonstrators, more took to the streets. By July 2011, hundreds of thousands of people across the country were attending protests demanding President Bashar al-Assad's resignation.”

Human Rights in Syria
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Syria

^The situation for human rights in Syria is considered exceptionally poor among international observers. A state of emergency was in effect from 1963 until April 2011, giving security forces sweeping powers of arrest and detention.

According to Human Rights Watch, President Bashar al-Assad failed to improve Syria’s human rights record in the first 10 years of his rule, and Syria's human rights situation remained among the worst in the world.

”Syria: living under the horrors of barrel bombs in Aleppo”
www.channel4.com/news/barrel-bombs-syria-assad-aleppo-deraa-idlib-civilian-deaths

”The Syrian Observatory of Human Rights has said around 7,000 barrel bombs have been dropped by the Syrian regime in the first five months of 2015, killing around 3,000 people - mostly civilians - and these numbers continue to rise.”

”Among the dead were 452 children and 290 women.”

”Barrel bombs are oil barrels, fuel tanks and gas cylinders packed with explosive, fuel and metal fragments that are dropped from helicopters. They devastate the surrounding areas where they land, and those not killed in the blast are often maimed by flying shrapnel. Chemical weapons such as chlorine are also often deployed in the barrels.”

”Bashar al-Assad has denied the Syrian regime uses barrel bombs - despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.”

”Iran Pays Afghans to Fight for Assad” www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304908304579564161508613846

”The Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, or IRGC, recruits and trains Shiite militias to fight in Syria. Details of their recruitment efforts were posted this week on a blog focused on Afghan refugees in Iran and confirmed by the office of Grand Ayatollah Mohaghegh Kabuli, an Afghan religious leader in the Iranian holy city of Qom. A member of the IRGC also confirmed the details.”

”Both Iran and Hezbollah have openly taken credit for their efforts in Syria. Gen. Hossein Hamedani, a senior Guards commander involved in planning war strategy in Syria, said last week that with God's help, Iran had trained an extra 130,000 soldiers ready for dispatch.”
”The 130,000 was an apparent reference to all the Shiite militias including Iranians, Hezbollah, Afghans and other foreign fighters.”

what an ignorant person you are.

Mmmm. Well, I'll have to disagree with you there. Having seen the results of HE Bombing first hand I can assure you there is nothing "surgical" about it.

I'd rather be "ignorant" by your standards than a brainwashed idiot vacuously spouting the party line.

Usually the ones choosing Assad over the 80% of Sunnis he has been killing since March 2011, have their own agenda, party related or not.

Both the two targets and bombs used mean a much great the chance of more collateral damage by the Russians, I don't know what experience you had if don't realise that.

How accurate were barrel bombs in your experience?

Not brainwashed, just common sense.

Article by Pat Buchanan on Putin's UN speech.

I love Pat, one of the few real Conservatives left on the planet. Not a moderniser, not a puppet, just a true American Conservative, a dying breed unfortunately.

"Nations have a right to be themselves, Putin is saying.

They have the right to reflect in their institutions their own histories, beliefs, values and traditions, even if that results in what Americans regard as illiberal democracies or authoritarian capitalism or even Muslim theocracies.

There was a time, not so long ago, when Americans had no problem with this, when Americans accepted a diversity of regimes abroad. Indeed, a belief in nonintervention abroad was once the very cornerstone of American foreign policy.

Wednesday and Thursday, Putin’s forces in Syria bombed the camps of U.S.-backed rebels seeking to overthrow Assad. Putin is sending a signal: Russia is willing to ride the escalator up to a collision with the United States to prevent us and our Sunni Arab and Turkish allies from dumping over Assad, which could bring ISIS to power in Damascus.

Perhaps it is time to climb down off our ideological high horse and start respecting the vital interests of other sovereign nations, even as we protect and defend our own."

www.lewrockwell.com/2015/10/patrick-j-buchanan/dr-putin-has-a-good-diagnosis/

'Russia is willing to ride the escalator up to a collision with the United States to prevent us and our Sunni Arab and Turkish allies from dumping over Assad'

But I don't think it will happen because Putin has called everyone's bluff.

Pat again, just two weeks ago

"Winston Churchill famously said in 1939: “I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest.”
...
Prediction: If Assad falls and ISIS rises in Damascus, a clamor will come — and not only from the Lindsey Grahams and John McCains — to send a U.S. army to invade and drive ISIS out, while the neocons go scrounging around to find a Syrian Ahmed Chalabi in northern Virginia.

Then this nation will be convulsed in a great war debate over whether to send that U.S. army to invade Syria and destroy ISIS.

And while our Middle Eastern and European allies sit on the sidelines and cheer on the American intervention, this country will face an anti-war movement the likes of which have not been seen since Col. Lindbergh spoke for America First.

In making ISIS, not Assad, public enemy No. 1, Putin has it right.

It is we Americans who are the mystery inside an enigma now."

www.lewrockwell.com/2015/09/patrick-j-buchanan/putin-is-right-2/

Interesting analysis of Lt. Col. Ralph Peters (Ret.) on Fox News. He says Putin may destroy all the phoney rebels first and leave Isis alone and then say to the world, who do you want to support now - Assad or Isis? If he does do that, then he will have called everyone's bluff and check-mated everyone.

"Fox News strategic analyst Lt. Col. Ralph Peters (Ret.) said on "America's Newsroom" that Russian President Vladimir Putin is making his move in the Middle East because he knows President Obama will not respond.

Earlier today, Russia commenced airstrikes on targets in northern Syria in support of the Assad regime, asking U.S. fighter jets to leave the area.

Peters said Putin believes Obama is so weak that Russia may shoot down a U.S. drone or a manned U.S. fighter jet, then claim it was accidental.

"He knows Obama would not respond militarily," said Peters, adding that Putin will not actually go after ISIS.

"It's transparent. He wants to wipe out all the opposition to Assad except Islamic State, leaving the world with a stark choice: support Assad or support Islamic State. This guy is good and we have a pixie dust president who still thinks he can say something three times and make it come true," he explained.

Peters said Putin, "a master of propaganda," has a better case for being inside Syria than the United States does because the Assad regime is the recognized government by the U.N. and invited Russian forces into the country.

"He intends to do as much mischief while Obama is still in office and unwilling to act," said Peters, adding that the next president will then face an "irreversible" situation on the ground."

insider.foxnews.com/2015/09/30/peters-putin-guy-good-we-have-pixie-dust-president?intcmp=ob_article_footer

You do realise some of these "phoney rebels" are people who want the freedoms for their children which we take for granted.

This is not an episode of the West Wing. A quarter of a million human beings have lost their lives and millions more have lost their homes and their normality.

This isn't an interesting Machivellian play this is real.