Greece part II

[Hullygully]

I would be very grateful if we could keep this about Greece, and those (two) who want to dance up and down jibing at Claig and calling her a fool and a kremlinbot and an anti-semite, start their own thread for that purpose.

Cheers

of course not, they're behind the scenes, obviously!

Suzanne I'm just trying to work out if you can't see them, hear them, smell them or have any idea who they are...how do you know they exist?!

suzannecanthecan ..... ha ha ha, harsh, but you were fair.

The difference between me and Claig, is that I try to explain my own opinion and use a link or two to qualify MY opinions.

Our friend claig tends to spew links of other opinions and kinda say sort the beans out of THAT can, which for me, tends to mean a quick post scan read and if nothing sticks,get nothing out of it.

Having said that, if the real thing can only spew "elites and "PPEs", possibly the lesser of two evils. lol

If France (or any other Eurozone contributor) wants to stump up more money for Greece or 'forgive' debt, I say let them.

The 'elites' and 'PPE's' are either means to lazily blame anyone other than who the poster is supporting, or cover an inability to get points across to win a debate, especially when protecting a dodgy wicket, thus saving face. IMO.

That is because you don't understand the issues behind the facade, believe that democracy in Slovakia influences Merkel and that investment banks are ethical organisations that manage risk on a day-to-day basis for their shareholders.

'The European Commission is to suggest using an EU-wide emergency fund as part of the Greek bailout - despite UK opposition.

EU officials said the commission had legal backing to use the fund for loans of 12bn euros which could be given to Greece in the coming weeks.

The final decision will be made by a qualified majority of EU countries, which means the UK could be outvoted.'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33528894

We will have to wait and see if the will of the people in the UK triumphs over the EU political class or not.

Alright claig, what do the elites want? And why do they want it?

I always naively assumed banks wanted money, and invested money to make more money for themselves first and their shareholders second.

Pleased to hear your account of events.

Alyosha .... oh dear, what a question to claig, that will be a two page 'can of worms', rather than beans.

'Alright claig, what do the elites want? And why do they want it?'

The elites want power and want to maintain power. Of course they have lots of other aims after they ensure power such as the true objectives of their climate change game, but that is a whole different kettle of fish.

'I always naively assumed banks wanted money, and invested money to make more money for themselves first and their shareholders second.'

No, that is why you have failed to understand the Greek shakedown and how the elites used banks to trap Greece and put them on the hook in order to privatise and loot their country, knowing that their political mates would help them achieve their goal by guaranteeing the losses of the banks by making the European taxpayer foot the bill.

Read "Confessions of an Econonmic Hit Man" by John Perkins or watch it on youtube to understand how the elite play the game and loot the public assets of countries.

(I suspect claig only posts when wearing a silver foil head covering, and little else)

Odd, because lots of very rich people don't like the idea of countries stopping them from churning out huge amounts of emissions.

I think Greece wanted to have it all, borrowed too much, and is now blaming everyone but itself for its current predicament.

Greece's creditors have already lost money on Greece.

Also, off topic but a fun read, watch out for some claigisms:

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/15/russia-terrorism-ukraine-america-putin

"And the US is behind all this?
You have to look at events objectively. The US are trying to prove that Russia is party to the conflict in Ukraine, but that is not the case. Moreover, the US themselves started the conflict in Ukraine.

How is that?
Did you not pick up [on it]? It was the US that set all these events in motion. Barack Obama admitted as much in one of his recent interviews."

The entire article is like having a discussion with claig.

Wrong, I don't have a silver foil head covering.

'I think Greece wanted to have it all, borrowed too much, and is now blaming everyone but itself for its current predicament.'

Have you learned nothing from this thread?

One of the sad facts of life is that not everyone will agree with you all the time.

Claig - you haven't convinced me. I'm sorry.

claig ... FYI when a country (or company) wants to raise huge amounts of money, albeit via a loan or the issuance of bonds, it is usually COMPETITIVE as 2 or more international Investment Banks are looking to provide the best terms for the borrower to chose from.

The terms/pricing of other existing loans or bond issues are in the public domain and form the interest rate BASIS of the terms for any new borrowing.

That market rate transparency and competitive bid process (with no prizes for second) ensures that your little silver foil cap world of plots on shopping lists, remain under YOUR hat.

Was LIBOR rate rigging transparent?

"Chris Hayes Bemoans ‘Morally Monstrous’ European Banks for Grinding ‘Greece into Misery’

MSNBC host Chris Hayes devoted a segment during Monday’s All In to commenting on the financial crisis in Greece and chose not to attack the left-wing government or any of the previous governments for their spending habits, but rather laid blame at the feet of “morally monstrous” European banks and others in the Eurozone for grinding “Greece into misery” in “a sadistic exercise in sheer will to power.”

newsbusters.org/blogs/curtis-houck/2015/07/01/chris-hayes-bemoans-morally-monstrous-european-banks-grinding-greece

It doesn't get more transparent than that.

claig ... it seems a little bit of knowledge confuses ones life.

the LIBOR scandal was mainly during the crisis when credit markets closed and HAD to be made up on a best efforts basis as hundreds of billions of Floating Rate Note etc products had to be priced every 3,6 or 12 months to prevailing market rate -that did not realistically exist, as determined by global transaction activity/flows.

So while there was concerted action by dealer desks on LIBOR rate fixing, it would have been by 100ths of 1% - and FYI there are two sides to a LIBOR rate, some borrowers, some lenders, so the knobing was equally distributed. lol

If Greece borrow $1 billion from a competitive process, again IF managed to be 'fixed', it would hardly be significant enough to buy you a new roll of Baccofoil - as if Greece's 10-year bonds are trading at a say 5.05% yield, then any new money raised would usually be expected to come to the market on less investor friendly terms e.g. 5.03%, as many investors prefer buying new issues close to a price of par (100), that at a price premium e.g. 101.

Yeah, claig, Merkel is an evil genius clapping her hands at the thought of Eurozone breakup and sad Greeks.

Or maybe she just wants to get reelected.

Merkel would love to give Greece a blank cheque, but she's got that pesky democracy to think about.

'Merkel is an evil genius'

Merkel has been played. She and Germany and the EU are long term losers.

An article from a Professor of Econonomics at the University of Maryland explains why.

'Germany—not Greece—will be the real loser'

www.cnbc.com/2015/07/07/germany-not-greece-will-be-the-real-loser-commentary.html

'claig ... it seems a little bit of knowledge confuses ones life.'

Why are you telling me about your life? Am I bovvered?

Back later.

claig ... Re your MSNBC and transparency.

As the Greek creditors ARE NOT BANKS, its transparent to me, that he has no 'kin idea what he is talking about.

Widespread financial ignorance on the BASICS e.g. who is OWED the money, hardly means providing link after link to the same rollocks, makes their opinions worth reading.

(And as time after time we have SHOWN the banks are NOT the creditors, and this can be looked up, so one has to wonder why you keep spewing such links)

Again, it's not about Merkel, it's about Merkel being re-elected. All of the long term stuff may very well be true, but she's doing what her people want her to do...whether that's wise or not.

'she's doing what her people want her to do'

Give me strength. Wake up. She is trying to save the entire EU Project. It is reeling. The German people have no say in it.

Must go, no time to correct any more folly and fallacies for now.

"Most Germans now favor Grexit as relations sour"

www.cnbc.com/2015/03/18/most-germans-now-favor-grexit-as-relations-sour.html