The Greek debt crisis....why?

[InDespair]

cant find another thread about this so.....

Before anyone accuses me of being thick or burying my head in the sand, I can';t always watch the news in full, and I dont read newspapers. (and Im sure others are wondering too).

Who exactly is in debt?

the people?

the banks?

How did they get themselves into this mess, and why and how do they expect a bailout?

what have they spent all their money on?

And what about tourism?

Laymans terms please.

Pradaqueen ... that is very kind of you, but if citing the common sense brigade, CoteDzur should be mentioned in dispatches, as for those with a bit more knowledge financial matters, explains the more technical 'stuff' very well. IMO

Common sense brigade?
Establishment sociopath brigade more like

(love u really)

squidzin ...... there is austerity and there is a country living within its means - or increasing national debt & interest charges for future generations so the 'want it now as the world owes me' - can have it now.

Clearly from your rhetoric, you think Greece's path would have been easy rebalancing its economy after decades of going in the wrong direction.

There are no time limits on restructuring a bad economy loaded with debt, where a switch is flicked and the streets are relined with gold.

The EU experiment of one of everything to fit all (28 members) is failing, even more reason to NOT throw more good money after bad in Greece, and concentrate on individual nations 'capitalist' efforts to pay their own bills - as believe it or not, those welfare/benefits/pensions DON'T pay for themselves.

Sorry Cote very remiss of me and loved the way the ankle biting was handled

Economics is theory. It's not a science.
You can spin whatever u want from it.
Pradabags, please take note.

Yes Greece Euro it is obviously failing. The Central banks, irresponsible and greedy, should repair the damage they have done.
Not the innocent everyday people.

Yes Greece Euro it is obviously failing. The Central banks, irresponsible and greedy, should repair the damage they have done.

No country was forced to join the Euro: anyone who wanted to stay out could. As evidence, I look out of my window and see the UK. Perhaps the Greek population might have chosen a government that would stay out, rather than one that went in so that it could borrow vast amounts of money.

The UK has a debt problem, but we're paying UK rates for it. That's a powerful incentive to remain within sensible, or at least not-crazy, limits. Greece was for ten years able to borrow at German rates, and went mad.

Coming next "it's not my fault that I'm in debt, the bank forced me into it by giving me a cheap overdraft".

I would also add that I was in Athens in February guided expertly by an ex teacher who had a PHD in classics and Latin who no longer teaches owing to the relatively poor wages (800 euros a month for secondary). He told me that as you cannot be dismissed from the police force so everyone wants to be one...The sadness permeates most of Athens, ancient monuments defaced etc and as with all businesses in trouble, most restaurants in the centre were trying to overcharge the few tourist customers they had rather than charge a fair price for more to come in. I honestly think the majority just don't know what to do next but know what probably they have to do regarding expectations of retirement but honestly, the current situation appeared to be untenable.

To what extent has Greece actually reformed its political and financial/tax systems since 2010, and what are Syriza's plans in this respect? If Greece is genuinely trying to modernise and end corruption/patronage then we should certainly continue supporting them. But are they?

Love how the right continue the belittling of the left as if such views are for children...it was ever thus. Wanting fairness and kindness for all is so childish.

Wanting fairness and kindness for all is so childish.

When you have no plan as to how to pay for it, other than watering the money tree with unicorn tears, it is childish.

What are your plans instead of more years of failed austerity?

It isn't childish to want it, it would be childish to want it without a restructuring of society to make it possible. Which is what is wanted, just need a chance to make it possible. But no one in power in the EU wants that, so no chance.

And I repeat, what plan do you have than might work, actually work as in help the economy to grow and function?

Pradaqueen .... interesting, especially the "all businesses in trouble" observation, as months later Greek PM Tsipras thought lumping MORE Greek austerity measures onto the generators of a tax receipts was the answer, and STILL wonders why this cunning plan was rejected by creditors as the economic way forward - also repaying the old and new debt.

Tsipras is still incompetently hiding behind Sunday's Referendum, saying last night another Greek mandate gives him a "more powerful weapon the negotiate", how dumb IS he?

Thankfully he said he would stand down IF a 'YES' as he could not handle what they wanted.

That was the first practical thing he's said since .... god knows when.

The current Greek administration has NO political or economic capital left within the EU, the Greek people need to dump them, and let a more economically competent government get them out of this, using their 'new broom' political capital to ask for debt forgiveness concessions - and an EU/IMF so close to the edge of losing hundreds of billions of Euros, should respond positively.

In this case, even the other debtor Eurozone bailout countries should respond positively, as they were also financially dangling on the hook.

I have to go out now, so if I don't respond childishly and emotionally, you will have to excuse me.

Last post...

Syriza was elected on a no more austerity it's failed platform.

There is no "economically competent" govt waiting in the wings, there is simply more of the same old same old.

I am still waiting for anyone to give me a credible alternative to more years of failed austerity.

Hullygully ..... somehow an indebted and budget deficit Greece needed to 'do an Osbourne' addressing as many of these as possible; cut back the costs of a bloated, inefficient State, restructure the economy towards the private sector, help businesses regain confidence AND lower taxes to both businesses and citizens to 'kick start' sustainable economic growth.

Clearly any one or two of those policies may not be enough, but believe it or not, cutting back the size of the State can be unpopular. Go figure.

If a political party comes to power PROMISING to protect the costs of the State (unbalancing the economy), rather than 'redistributing' it, they were doomed to failure from the get go, as they can neither succeed in fixing Greece's problem or satisfying creditors they are worthy of current loans, never mind INCREASED loans.

charleybarley ... I agree with nearly everything you say, as back in February we were saying something similar and it was doomed to fail, as mentioned by the last poster below. lol

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2292072-Historic-Syriza-win-in-Greece?pg=2

The only thing I'd question is that Greece CAN be dealt with the same as Portugal, Ireland or Spain as their debt levels are PRESENTLY unserviceable, whether looking to GDP or any other measure - and logically that has to be taken into account.

But 'debt forgiveness' of any kind could never have been on the table to the incompetent Syriza mob.

So IF the new administration is willing to ‘play the EU game’, I’d suggest a carrot is not only advisable, but necessary to try ensure we are not back here in several months time.

CoteDazure, where did I say that I was explaining how subprime crisis emerged What I WAS saying is that banks and other investors made some stupid financial decisions (greece was one of them) that materialised as losses when global financial system was hit with a shock. Sorry, but beleiveing that Greece was in any economic term similar to so called core European countries was just plain stupid. And when you look at pre crisis yield curves that's what was implied. Why, because those countries were in monetary union? Well that's another stupid assumption, and as they say, assumption is the mother of all fuckup. Don't know why it is important to you whether I made a lot of money by betting against Greece, but whoever stayed away from the dissaster waiting to happen certainly saved a lot of money.

"Obviously the figures Cote quoted from whatever banks are going to be spun to benefit their own agenda."

Oh yeah, it's so ridiculous of me to quote the official figures of the Bank of Greece

Bank of Greece = Central Bank of Greece, not just some bank that has the word 'Greece' in it. FYI.

You are the one showing your agenda with your preference for dubious "sources" over the official figures of the country.

Exactly what charley said.

"BathtimeFunkster Tue 30-Jun-15 00:12:34
A you've done is call her a silly little woman."

That is a lie. Show where I have said that or apologise.

Whatever insecurities you are projecting are not coming from me but are inside your head.

Oh, and the yield curve thing...it's happening again, but with some other european countries. With exception of some nervous twitches around acute episodes, the market has been pricing the debt of some peripheral countries disturbingly close to core countries. Why...again, because they all have ECB to back themup.