The Greek debt crisis....why?

[InDespair]

cant find another thread about this so.....

Before anyone accuses me of being thick or burying my head in the sand, I can';t always watch the news in full, and I dont read newspapers. (and Im sure others are wondering too).

Who exactly is in debt?

the people?

the banks?

How did they get themselves into this mess, and why and how do they expect a bailout?

what have they spent all their money on?

And what about tourism?

Laymans terms please.

The Americans used a Neo-nazi coup in Ukraine. They can use Marxists elsewhere. There are no black and whites, there is only wrong and right. America looks after its interests and for the EU, the game is now up. I think the real global corporatocracy has decided that the EU needs to be reined in, weakened and cut down to size, so that is what will be done to them.

The dollar will remain the world reserve currency, dollar hegemony will remain unchallengd for the time being and the EU's dreams of exerting an independent world influence will be stopped as they are sucked into the Ukraine disaster, which they will eventually be expected to pay for, on their door.

This is from John Perkins of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" fame

'How Greece Has Fallen Victim To "Economic Hit Men"
...
In your book, which was written in 2004, you expressed hope that the euro would serve as a counterweight to American global hegemony, to the hegemony of the US dollar. Did you ever expect that we would see in the European Union what we are seeing today, with austerity that is not just in Greece but also in Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, and also several other countries as well?

What I didn't realize during any of this period was how much corporatocracy does not want a united Europe. We need to understand this. They may be happy enough with the euro, with one currency - they are happy to a certain degree by having it united enough that markets are open - but they do not want standardized rules and regulations. Let's face it, big corporations, the corporatocracy, take advantage of the fact that some countries in Europe have much more lenient tax laws, some have much more lenient environmental and social laws, and they can pit them against each other.

What would it be like for big corporations if they didn't have their tax havens in places like Malta or other places? I think we need to recognize that what the corporatocracy saw at first, the solid euro, a European union seemed like a very good thing, but as it moved forward, they could see that what was going to happen was that social and environmental laws and regulations were going to be standardized. They didn't want that, so to a certain degree what's been going on in Europe has been because the corporatocracy wants Europe to fail, at least on a certain level."

www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-02/how-greece-has-fallen-victim-economic-hit-men

'What consequences?'

Gordon Bennett. Do I need to spell it out? A simple phone call to the Greeks is enough to get them to fall in line. They are not stupid, they understand the game. The EU is a paper tiger, but the US isn't. They know that.

???????????, ??????? ????? ???! ??? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ?????? ????!

Excuse my rusty Russian! This was a pretty great, informative conversation before Claig got stuck in... much kudos to Isitmebut, Cote & Gemauve. I think I probably disagree with your political leanings most of the time, but even as a leftie, completely agree that public spending must have limits - and you can't spend and spend and spend and never pay back a penny.

The anti capitalism, buy gold as the world is going to hell in a handcart Zerohedge website...p-lease.

Can we try and keep this subject both simple and REAL please, leaving the 'out there' head-up-bum conspiracy theories for other boards?

Especially if used to answer a simple question by baffliing with BS.

so that's it really Claig the big corporations have the reigns and the rest of us are just maneuvered into whatever best serves their interests:(

just pieces in the power games of the elites

Shouldn't get stuck in - but Claig, utter tosh. I bloody lived in Donetsk for a year and I can tell you in no uncertain terms that people there are not some kind of monolithic Putin loving bloc. What is happening there is Russian state terrorism.

suzannecanthecan, absoutely, because at the end of the day, it is money and power that determines events. The EU got above its station and wanted to be independent above its station. Now it is being curtailed and taught a lesson. The Marxists are confident because someone more powerful than the EU has their back.

'I bloody lived in Donetsk for a year'
Then you probably didn't understand what was going on.

suzannecanthecan, you probably already know about "Confessions of an Economic Hitman", but read the whole article and watch the video on youtube.

Yes, only people writing from Moscow/wherever you are can truly understand the situation in Ukraine, by listening to state sponsored propaganda RT, certainly not by living there, speaking to people and attending political events.

And Claig - I thought you liked corporations? Farage thinks the EU hampers big corporations, that's part of the reason he wants to leave...

Your rhetoric is so transparently anti-west & anti-liberal democracy it's incoherent.

The youtube video makes an appearance! why do conspiracy nuts always think youtube videos are definitive evidence of whatever twaddle they are peddle? arrgh

Alyosha ... re your earlier post re my "political leanings".

Coming up to the UK General Election I was endlessly wanging on about the problems with excessive (UK) debt and the problems if we wanted to sustain the unsustainable by increasing it further - and the potential 'risks' to current/future spending if too big to service.

If nothing else you can at least see that I'm 'consistent', as even a stopped clock is right twice a day (I'm told). lol

because at the end of the day, it is money and power that determines events
yes...almost a tautology really isnt it

still no one has a crystal ball, interventions very often have unintended consequenses

Todays parliamentary debate
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33407212

claig, the zerohedge link is interesting, unsurprising and depressing in equal parts.

'why do conspiracy nuts always think youtube videos are definitive evidence of whatever twaddle they are peddle? '

Because youtube hosts all sorts of videos, from Peppa Pig to BBC clips to American C-Span clips.

There is a John Perkins "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" American C-Span network talk on youtube. C-Span doesn't run conspiracy shows, it is a network that runs political content.

Osborne couldn't be more pleased. All his christmases have come at once.

'Your rhetoric is so transparently anti-west & anti-liberal democracy it's incoherent.'

No, I am pro West and pro capitalism. But I am against metropolitan elites who stitch the people up. I am for democracy and referenda and the people's choice. I am against war and suffering and want people to be allowed to prosper and develop without being stitched up by unaccountable and unelected bureaucrats and elites who impose austerity that destroys GDP and economic prosperity of ordinary people.

I believe in the potential of humanity and freedom and free markets and unrigged markets that are regulated for the common good.

I am for national independence and sovereignty for the UK, for Greece and every other country on the planet. That's why I support Farage.

sanfairyanne … re your last post, using German WW examples of 70 and 100 years ago in any comparison to Greece’s recent decade participating in a united Europe - and piggy backing off of a German credit rating to gorge itself on cheap money and excessive debt, it IS different - trust me, as if it don’t wear with me, it won’t with the Germans with first hand experience and trillions of Euros of ECB liabilities since the crash.

P.S. If the Germans continue to allow the Greeks to use Euros, rumour has it that they will be printed on Grease proof paper. lol

Aloysha ??? ?????? - ? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ?????????, ????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?? ?????????. (with thanks to my Russian friend)

I have enjoyed lurking on this thread, not being an expert in all things Greek nor the financial complexities, I have nevertheless learned a great deal, so thank you.

The only exception I could make are claig's posts which, although teaching me nothing of interest, have amused me during a dull morning.

My own opinion, for what it's worth, is that as the Greek people have spoken, the EU and IMF should now stand back and let Greece deal with their own problems.

I thought Osborne might be a bit embarrassed now with his austerity and cutbacks when Greece has said a firm no. Never mind that's there's no money in the banks. If Greece gets bailed out without any austerity what's the point of any country paying back what it owes.

Isitmebut - yes I remember! But I do think the UK & Greece are different in that while not every penny spent by Labour in the last government was well spent, our overspending didn't cause a financial crisis, where in Greece their overspending was already causing financial problems in 2010.

But some level of austerity is definitely necessary.

I await correction!

people never learn the lessons of history. it is part of the tragedy of the human condition.

Farage speaks (metropolitan elite listen) in today's Daily Telegraph.

"Greece votes No: The European Union is dying before our eyes

It's not just disaffected pensioners: young Greeks have worked out that they don't need the bloated EU"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/11720081/Greece-votes-No-The-European-Union-is-dying-before-our-eyes.html