Rebecca Minnock - on the run with child after court battle

[BreakingDad77]

Is this one of those cases we wont get to the bottom of as to whether she is someone with MH problems or scheming father driving her to them?

Spero my legal team would say the same. I went into it all years after the case closed to clean up our files and it all made sense then. It wasn't just the police. I would like one day to send you my papers. I need my youngest to become 16 and get their permission first.

Sorry spero I wasn't clear - when a court decides that a DC should have no contact, indirect or supervised contact, with their NRP (as in Ethan's case), is that decision made on the basis of risk of significant harm or, is made on the basis that the RP can better meet the DCs needs and so contact with the NRP is deemed less necessary/important?

I do think however that one problem is that the court is very dismissive of the very real pain caused by relationship breakdown - particularly when one party has behaved really badly.

I often cringe when judges adopt a very 'pull your socks up' approach, all that matters here is the child - when they have a parent who is literally in pieces trying to come to terms with the loss of the relationship and their future. It is no wonder that it is often very, very difficult to manage the ongoing contact with children when your own emotions are so raw.

I think there should be more recognition of this. Pretending you can scold parents into compliance is rarely helpful.

Children are not possessions, unfortunately they still tend to be treated as such. This they have the right to have a relationship with both parents is smoke and mirrors. They should have the right to live in a life where their emotional, psychological and physical health is not abused during state sanctioned contact. I can not see how making a child visit their abusive father (or mother for that matter) does any good. So what that they share DNA, plenty of studies show that children are damaged by abusive parents, why promote and continue this cycle?

I do believe that most of the problems we humans have in this world have roots in child abuse. Sad thing is much of the abuse is concidered as normal practice because it is minimised and enabled by everyone else.

I think that society will move on and proper rights for children will eventually be put into place. People will look back and be shocked at how archaic our system is today.

voyageofdad MN is a campaigning and political lobbying collective - it's not a neutral environment where all POV are equally weighted!

Sorry spero I wasn't clear - when a court decides that a DC should have no contact, indirect or supervised contact, with their NRP (as in Ethan's case), is that decision made on the basis of risk of significant harm or, is made on the basis that the RP can better meet the DCs needs and so contact with the NRP is deemed less necessary/important?

Ah! sorry - there have to be really clear, serious and significant reasons to justify limiting or curtailing a relationship with another parent. The case law couldn't be clearer - this is the last resort for the court, all reasonable options to keep the relationship going have to be tried.

So yes, it probably is more akin to the 'significant harm' test in care proceedings. It certainly is NEVER a case that contact with a 'good enough' NRP is deemed 'less necessary'. Both parents are considered of equal importance to the child who requires a healthy relationship with both to reach his/her full potential as a adult.

I'd like to think that it is due to the belief that the (no longer such thing as a Non Resident Parent, thank goodness) reasonable father would encourage the child's relationship with the mother unlike, as in this case, the mother attempting to completely destroy the child's relationship with the father.

If our system is 'archaic' then its archaism backed by decades of case law and near unanimous opinion of child psychologists/psychiatrists.

So we aren't going to lose it overnight.

So what that they share DNA, plenty of studies show that children are damaged by abusive parents, why promote and continue this cycle?

Because plenty of other studies show that children have better outcomes when they do have a relationship with both parents in a safe environment.

Which studies are more accurate, and how do we know?

Sorry, my last post was in response to Peruvian

Yes, there is no such thing as 'residence' or 'contact' any more - its all Child Arrangments Orders now.

Which is complete tosh as still most children WILL live (be resident with) one parent and 'spend time' (have contact with) the other parent.

Unless you are rich or lucky enough to have houses in the same street and both close to a child's school, this 50/50 split is a fool's paradise.

I note that I have never heard of a parent who was prepared to move homes every other week for eg. Yet this is considered ok for a child. Absolute bolllocks. I think a child, just like all of us, benefits from a settled home.

Given that the track record of the police regarding assaults of vulnerable people it's certainly not unreasonable to believe that most allegations of abuse of women and children by men are likely to be true.

Spero,

I understand what you are saying but my own child has been thriving for the past 3 years living in mum's settled home around 60% and dad's settled home 40% of the time.

It can work for the benefit of the child, but for some of us we have to move mountains to even get there.

spero anecdotally, I disagree with you about 50:50 arrangements; but am willing to accept my situation is not statistically relevant!

Has there been any research into the factors that influence the success of 50:50 coparenting arrangements and the long term impact on DCs?

In fact I would go as far to say that our child actually benefits more from this arrangement than had her mother and I still lived together.

I think at one point CAFCASS stated that a child can benefit from two homes, maybe I dreamt that one, they are not the most efficient outfit at times.

Feminist led organisations such as Gingerbread and Women's Aid would argue the contrary though.

SGB - are you saying that because prosecution rates of violence against women are falling, that proves that women don't lie?
I'm not sure I see the link - could you explain it?

Peruvian

Maybe we aren't statistically irrelevant.

I'm in the middle of a Family Court nightmare. The system is disasterous. Why are solicitors allowed to separate parents in order to cream off profits through fueling a war. These scenarios require supervised communication, immediately. The legal system uses families as a cash cow, and the children are the ultimate victims. My open letter to my sons:

The Australian research by Jennifer Mcintosh shows that equal shared parenting after separation has very adverse consequences IF there is parental conflict. I don't know what research has been carried out into more harmonious relationships.

I have seen cases where the child has moved back and forth from two homes - and it seems to working ok, but I remain doubtful that it is the best thing for most children. But I accept this is based on my own emotional response rather than any sound statistical basis!

Prosecution rates of violence against men are on the incline, they must be lying!

Obviously it is only men committing these offences though.

Spero you presumably don't have that much to do with parents who amicably arrive at residency arrangements with no legal involvement? Dsd lives here 50/50 and has had shared care with her dad and mum since she was 18 months old. It's all she has ever known and she is fine with having two homes.

Not all solicitors behave like that Owen. I have met a fucking evil bitch of a barrister who was as you describe though. The whole team were professionally embarrassed in the end and dropped ex like a hot potatoe, when I got medical evidence they had been torturing me and the children on his behalf. Sadly it was right at the very end of finances after the other stuff.

No we are not going to loose it over night serpo but discussion such as this will bring us one step closer. We are recognising the effects of abuse and things are changing, gosh, it wasn't that long ago that a husband could legally rape his wife!

Rights for women still have a long way to go, stamping out abuse, helping women to recognise the warning signs. Educating our population on equality, real equality.

The rights of children are much trickier, we must protect the children but also protect and help those parents to have a positive impact.

It is a hard job these agencies have, cafcass/ss etc and it doesn't help that they are underfunded and under staffed.

One day though I hope 'we' get there.