Rebecca Minnock - on the run with child after court battle

[BreakingDad77]

Is this one of those cases we wont get to the bottom of as to whether she is someone with MH problems or scheming father driving her to them?

or the majority of men and women.

Lurker on this thread as my brother has gone through recent court proceedings in a similar pattern.

People wonder why they don't want to be called feminist when you have prominent FWR posters twisting the narrative and extrapolating anecdotes to data to suit the narrative.

I can't wait for these same posters to question judges/sw and court papers etc when the roles are reversed.

Your doing mumsnet proud!

I strongly disagree Voyage,

This case has provided the rare opportunity for an open discussion of these, very real to many, issues and I think the fact that this is possible should be embraced.

I think that in this case mumsnet is doing a great service to parents of both genders by facilitating and allowing it.

Just so long as it doesn't slip into demonisation of either side in an attempt to prove a point. But I agree this veneration of the uterus has to stop.

For all there are individual cases of abusive or neglectful mothers (and of loving fathers doing their best to maintain a relationship with their children) we still live in a world where the structure, history and culture is one of men's violence and abuse being regarded as mainly acceptable, and women's reporting of the abuse to be lies, delusions or simply not relevant. ( Spero, you asked for UK studies It is still true that most abusers are men, not women. (The 40% figure has recently been questioned.)
An the worst aspect of this particular case is, as I said before, the opportunity it is going to give to abusive men to carry on abusing because, well, see, you can't trust women not to be difficult and tell lies...

Sorry SGB I don't have a clue what you think that Scottish Herald article is trying to prove

8% of children in contact disputes in family courts in Scotland are compelled to visit or stay with a parent who is alleged to have committed domestic abuse

So what? 100% of me alleges that George Clooney made a mistake when he married Amal. 8% of 'allegations' is prove of 8% of allegations, nothing more.

O hang on, are you saying that the allegations were made by mothers, ergo must be true.

Sorry if I have spectacularly missed the point but I couldn't be arsed to read past that line as it was so irritating.

So a whopping great 92% of Scottish cases involve NO allegations of abuse whatsoever?!?

Details of children being compelled to spend time with parents accused of abuse emerged in a report by Dr Kirsteen Mackay which explored the experience of children in custody battles in Scotland. In any year, an estimated 185 children in Scotland are being pushed via the courts into contact with potential dangerous parents

'accused' 'potential' - you do understand what these words mean don't you?

'estimated' 185!!!! How is this 'estimated'. Can't the researcher count?

Its all smoke and fucking mirrors. This does make me cross. Prejudice and assumption dressed up as 'research'. Shameful.

Spero,

My aim was to demonstrate that by making this a gender issue, the welfare of any child subject to family law proceedings will become secondary.

And I agree with your aim. that's where the emphasis should be.

Otherwise there will be a Scottish Herald article along in a moment suggesting all sorts of alarming 'potentials'.

Wow, I go for a refill and what'd y'know...

SGB

My point was that when there is a dispute between parents which goes to court and there are allegations of abuse (which is, in the majority of cases, going to be abuse by the father) then in terms of potential risk/harm to the child, losing the relationship with a father who is harmless is less bad than being placed in the care of a father who is dangerous.

So if there is an allegation of abuse against the mother, the same applies? She loses custody immediately? What if both parents make allegations against each other, both lose custody? Is there a reason you won't answer this question?

I also do think it's important to keep saying that children don't necessarily need their biological fathers as a way of counterbalancing the propaganda which effectively tells women that they must 'work at' relationships with abusive or unsatisfactory men because it's 'better for the children' when this is often thoroughly untrue.

So you will counter one set of lies with another set of lies? The opposite of the statement that "All children need their father" is that "NOT all children need their father". Not that NO children need their father. Jesus H Christ.

One of my siblings has a child, the father now, for several years, has had no contact of any kind with his child. He was extremely abusive. I had witnessed it and have also had the extreme displeasure of being a victim of his abuse. There has never been court proceedings in that case.

When I spoke to my mother earlier and mentioned to her that the High Court Judge in this case had stated within his judgement that the father has a right to a relationship with his child, she stated, with a sense of outrage, that she doesn't agree with that. (I have endured several years of fighting through court against very obvious unfounded allegations in a similar vain, with the support of my family, to those that have been made in this case)

The notion that my sibling's ex could just rock up to court with a print out of these recent judgements and attempt to use this case as some sort of precedent is ridiculous.

It ain't gonna happen.

I'm starting to wonder why Spero sticks around and constructively argues with so much common sense, banging my head against a brick wall seems a far more enticing option.

similar vein to this case I mean

My last comment was in direct response to SGB's claim that the publication of the recent judgements in this case will provide an opportunity for abusers to carry on abusing their victims.

Thee worst aspect of this case is the impact all of this has on Ethan...

The worst impact of this case is the impact it has had and will continue to do so on Ethan...

By who ? You ? Where are your figures from ?

From police reports and criminal convictions for domestic violence - which consistently show that 85-95% perpetrators are male.

Furthermore, Kimmel (2002) finds that women are less likely than men to call the police, but more likely to need hospital treatment following domestic violence.

From police reports and criminal convictions for domestic violence - which consistently show that 85-95% perpetrators are male

But we are not talking about the criminal system - I accept that the vast majority of people in custody are men and the vast majority of crimes of violence under the Offences Against the Person Act are committed by men.

I went to a very interesting lecture by Prof Steve Jones who announced to general excitement, that he had discovered the gene for criminality - it was the Y chromosone.

I am pretty sure I have found some other stats regarding allegations in private law disputes, I will see if I can find them.

But as far as I am aware there is NOTHING to support SGB's assertion that if an allegation is made against a father it is most likely to be true and it is in the child's best interests therefore simply not to ever see that father again.

that is an assertion which i don't think is factually correct and I know for sure is not lawful.

Witnessing DV is one form of abuse of children.

But it is not the only form, by far.

Putting undue weight on the sex balance on one form of abuse isn't going to give a good picture, and may, if people start thinking in stereotypes, come to believe that mothers must be right.

That is wrong, and I think dangerous.

Children need to be protected from all abusive parents.

SGB already linked to research upthread (the Canadian one) that found that false allegations were very rare in family courts.