Rebecca Minnock - on the run with child after court battle

[BreakingDad77]

Is this one of those cases we wont get to the bottom of as to whether she is someone with MH problems or scheming father driving her to them?

I wrote this guest post for Pink Tape where I claimed that reported rates of violence from women to men were low - but I recall later reading something which cast doubt on this.

www.pinktape.co.uk/uncategorized/kind-debate-domestic-violence/

The uncomfortable fact which some need to face is that in my direct experience over 15 years I have NOT seen an overwhelming proportion of father's found to be abusive. but I HAVE seen a significant proportion of mothers make false or grossly exaggerated claims against their former partner. I would need to go back to my note books to gather full stats but I would estimate that roughly 20% of cases involve abusive men, 20% exaggerated and/or false claims by women and the remainder the 'blame' for the whole toxic mess is shared pretty equally between the parents.

I know the plural of anecdote is not data, but equally you can't dismiss my experiences as mere 'anecdote'.

But the kinds of opinions expressed on this thread makes me think I do need to go back to my notebooks and conduct a proper analysis of the many 100s of cases I have encoutered.

However, I accept that this will not impress some posters who won't let an annoying thing like a fact get in the way of their very dearly held opinions.

Although, research has not found a higher incidence of false allegations of child abuse and domestic violence in the context of custody/visitation, officers of the court tend to be unreasonably suspicious of such claims and that too often custody decisions are based on bad science, misinterpretation of fact, and evaluator bias. As a result, many abused women and their children find themselves re-victimized by the justice system after separation.

Research has found that many custody evaluators consider alienation of more significance than domestic violence in making custody recommendations.

www.leadershipcouncil.org/1/pas/dv.html

SGB already linked to research upthread (the Canadian one) that found that false allegations were very rare in family courts

Then I will need to read that again and see in precisely what context that was raised and whether this research is as top notch as that in the Scottish Herald (upon which she also relies). Because that it not my experience as a practitioner in the English courts, applying forensic analysis to the allegations made.

Although, research has not found a higher incidence of false allegations of child abuse and domestic violence in the context of custody/visitation

But what does this MEAN? 'higher' as opposed to what? Claims in parking disputes? What is the starting point for these false allegations? For that sentence accepts they are made, just not that they are 'higher' when compared to something unidentified.

This is all so desperately unimpressively woolly when we are debating something so important. Posters such as SGB are directly citing extremely dodgy propositions as solid reasons for justifying denying a father a relationship with his child.

Furthermore, approx 97% sexual crime convictions have been committed by men. A third of all sex crimes reported to the police are reported to be against a child - 90% of those are by someone the child knows (family member or family friend).

Sexual abuse of children is overwhelmingly committed by men.

Found it - 40% of victims of domestic violence are men.

Given that you claim false allegations about abuse are so rare, guess we can rely on this one.

www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence

Spero -totally off topic (and apologies for temporary disruption of thread) - but were you the poster who wrote about wanting to take pictures at a children's event and being prevented by fictitious legislation and / or legislation which did not support the ban?

Did you ever update the thread in relation to what response you got from the event's organisers? If so, could you post (or Pm me) the link to that thread?

Thanks!

Spero - it means that the incidence of false allegations in family courts/custody battles are not higher than in direct reports to police - ie. Keir Starmer's research.

Well, I have a picture of Sabrinna and SGB's Brave New World which seems to involve petri dishes and cloning.

a large proportion of shop lifters are young women. Do we ban young women from shops? On your logic we probably would.

we are not talking about the criminal system. You are talking about a different proportion of the population. We are talking about parents in private law disputes.

The mother is the abusive parent in this case.
It's not some fault in the system, under reporting or anything else - the child was at significant risk of emotional abuse from the mother - the boys outcomes will be significantly better with father hence the reason for custody.

Mothers are always the best thing for their DC although society still really struggles with that concept.

*Data from Home Office statistical bulletins and the British Crime Survey show that men made up about 40% of domestic violence victims each year between 2004-05 and 2008-09, the last year for which figures are available. In 2006-07 men made up 43.4% of all those who had suffered partner abuse in the previous year, which rose to 45.5% in 2007-08 but fell to 37.7% in 2008-09.

Similar or slightly larger numbers of men were subjected to severe force in an incident with their partner, according to the same documents. The figure stood at 48.6% in 2006-07, 48.3% the next year and 37.5% in 2008-09, Home Office statistics show.

The 2008-09 bulletin states: "More than one in four women (28%) and around one in six men (16%) had experienced domestic abuse since the age of 16. These figures are equivalent to an estimated 4.5 million female victims of domestic abuse and 2.6 million male victims*

Dontcha just love statistics? Ok, its not quite 50/50 but it paints rather a different picture from that some posters paint.

Mothers are always the best thing for their DC although society still really struggles with that concept

Along with thousands of posters on this site it would seem....

to talk in such absolute terms about anything involving fallible human beings is a sign that you just haven't turned your brain on.

Now you're just being silly spero.

Police reports/convictions are pretty difficult to argue with. Anyway, I was answering VOD's question about why SGB thought men were overwhelmingly the abusers in relationships - he asked for evidence, I gave it.

Interesting. When posters don't agree with me I am 'silly'.

Why not 'fluffy' as well? Is it my cursed nurturing Girl Brainz that get in the way of my argument. What do you think of the Guardian article Sabrinna?

The British Crime Survey figures do not distinguish between types of domestic abuse - it includes domestic conflict, ie verbal arguments.

When you look at serious domestic violence, causing physical injury and hospitalisation, and repeat attacks (4 or more incidents) then women are the victims in 80% of cases.

The British crime survey figures, also I believe, does not take account of sexual violence - where women are overwhelmingly the victims.

Well, I have a picture of Sabrinna and SGB's Brave New World which seems to involve petri dishes and cloning.

^That was silly spero - and beneath you.

Aridane - I don't think you are derailing, I think that is a very interesting comparison because these two threads are pretty similar.

Both involve people making very firm assertions that X is bad because Y, and when you challenge them to explain what Y actually means or is they turn around and call you silly. And both threads involve quite important issues about what it means to be a parent and when your relationship with your child can be limited (or even curtailed)

I am afraid I can't find the thread - it was on AIBU about photographs at the Mid Somerset Festival, but I gathered together the 'arguments' in this post
www.childprotectionresource.org.uk/category/taking-photographs-of-children/

I got a very disappointing response from the organisers which said they wanted me to identify my daughter and to have a go at the individual announcer who trotted out the irrelevant law. That is so not the point - the point was their own website relied upon a stream of primary legislation of NO RELEVANCE in order to promote the view that parents taking pictures were likely to be paedophiles.

And bringing in shoplifting? Why - it's not comparable at all. But if you want to talk shoplifting, our local shop finds that schoolchildren are predominantly the shoplifters, and so only allows two in at any one time.

I don't consider my comment either 'silly' or 'beneath me'.

There are a number of posters seriously suggesting that father's have such a negligible role in their children's lives that at the merest hint that they might be abusive, because they belong to the class 'male' they should then be removed from the child's life.

If I can get across just how stupid and dangerous I think this is, I will do so by any means necessary. If you don't want to engage because I am 'silly', that is your perogative, but I do find it interesting that you dismiss me with this word, the historically dismissive term for the hysterical female.

Well, I don't believe that, spero - my children live with me and my husband.

However, that doesn't stop me recognising that:

a) the majority of domestic abuse is perpetrated by men against women.

b) false allegations to both police and in the family courts are rare - that's not to say it never happens - but it is rarer than people think.

I also believe that when there is domestic violence in a relationship, the children should be protected from the perpetrator. The courts do not agree with this, and grant access to fathers who have been violent towards the mothers.

And there we have it - police figures and criminal convictions are 'stats without foundation.' You couldn't make it up.

Unbelievable.