poor baby

[alexa1]

sorry is this has already been posted.
how awful.
this

whiz - she wasn't from a violent household

alexa, how could you possibly know that?

and callisto, i recognise that you take exception to the work lucky, fair enough. but i am always drawn back to the example of my friend, whose luck ran out the day she endured a family tragedy in her teenage years that caused her entire family (wealthy, seemingly functional) to spin apart forever.
this is what left her as an easy mark for predators, this is why she has gone from having a rather nice boyfriend who loved her and supported her throughout the tragedy to a sociopathic predator now. since the incident in her teens i don't think that she would agree that she has had clear choice to make, because i don't think that she thinks she is worthy of making choices, iykwim? as i say, she has long since fallen out with me, becausen i couldn't bear her inaction any more and informed the authorities. but he is a VERY smooth operator, and has convinced SS in three juridictions that there is no case to answer. (obviously he moves her around a lot to prevent her from making links in the community).
i genuinely count myself lucky that a family tragedy did not hobble me and my emotional growth enough to put me in a position where i found his attention charismatic and flattering (instead i immediatly found him creepy and threatening). we are from the same school, same background, same size and kind of family... i really think 'there but for the grace of god...'

oh, there was no violence in her household growing up as far as i'm aware.

I'm sorry but I cannot help but feel contempt and disgust for that baby's mother. How could she let a helpless and defenceless baby "shake with fear" - I know what I'd do if anyone made one of mine "shake with fear". I'm sat here in tears and I don't know the little soul. She's failed in her job as a mum - as does anyone who lets the abuse of a child knowingly happen. That poor, poor, little baby. At least he's in a better place now - he'd have had a shite life with his sorry excuse for a mother who would have always put men before him.

very true vev.
i am sure she could of left him if she wanted to. there is plenty of support out there for DV women and children (especially if the kids are involoved), she had loads of sisters too who i am sure at least one of them would of supported her knowing her child was at risk.

Aitch, your friend has chosen her path by her inaction. The tragedy had a negative effect on her, but many people cope with dreadful tragedies at a young age and don't choose to let their live go into freefall.

callisto - how very true.

caligula-i find that your 'opinions' on this matter sound like something straight out of a text book.as i have said,i do8 undrstand the dynamics of an abusive relationship,as i have been in two.i didnt intentionally get involved with violent men,no,neither was i 'lucky' to get out of the relationships.i laid my life on the line getting out of them,and i only did it for my children,cos by that point i didnt give a st about myself as my self esteem had been eroded to nothing.

would the actions of the man who murdered this baby be justified if it transpired he had grown up in an abusive home?
i say no,because as adults we are all able to chose right over wrong,and those who use their background as excuses for killing innocent children are pathetic.

What a beautiful little boy.

I don't know the full facts, but if it is the case that Lewis did not come from an abusive background and if it is true she did not know the killer for very long, then even if she suffered DV at his hands, it is not a long enough time to totally strip her of all self esteem and maternal instincts.

ie she deserves her sentence and possibly more.

she didn't have any maternal instincts. i don't believe all women have. why didn't she just give the baby to his father or phone SS and say she didn't want him.

for the record i do think that she deserved her sentence and that she deserves to be punished. and i specifically said that women who get out of these relationships are lucky and brave, i hope i would never in any way underestimate the tremendous achievement of anyone managing to extricate themselves from an abusive relationship.
my friend is not brave, sadly. her inaction is crippling her and her chlidren. i don't approve of her behaviour, nor do i support it any longer (although if she asked me again i would try to help). but i cannot easily read things like 'i hope she rots in hell/is dealt with by other prisoners' about this perticular woman without in some way seeking to question such violent responses.

I think we react in such a way because the death was so unnecessary and we imagine our own children in Aarons place. It is also hard to feel empathy with a person whose action or inaction is so abnormal.

Yeah callisto you are right. my DS is the same age as Aaron and just as cute. it's one of the worst stories i have ever had to read. i wish i never read it. i have been crying a lot over this story.
the thing is, this is going on up and down the country, violent boyfriends take an instant dislike to the womans children, maybe they feel threatened or jealous, whatever, there is no excuses are there.
with this familial homicide law in place maybe partners will think twice about allowing this thing happening.

just to be contentious for a minute... how far should this law go? should her sisters (who seem to have so much to say for themselves now) be charged for not having gone and snatched the child who they believed to have been in mortal danger?
if my sister was 'allowing' her child to be harmed i like to think i might do this, but would i? and if i didn't, would i say 'it's a fair cop' when the police came for me?
the woman was culpable, and i don't understand her actions. i have never been in an abusive relationship (i am lucky) but i have seen how being in such a relationship can transform a person very quickly indeed into someone whose actions they themselves would not recognise. i think that's why i can feel sympathy, if not empathy. and i certainly am not a perfect enough individual to advocate someone rotting in hell for eternity for actions (or inactions) that they may be utterly repentant for.

divastrop my opinions aren't straight out of a text book, I've never read a text book on the subject. I just think it's a whole lot more complicated than "she's evil and deserves to be beaten up by other criminals" (as Aitch said, like they've got some kind of moral right) and "there's plenty of help for abuse victims." There most certainly isn't plenty of help. There's a little bit. Very badly funded, hand to mouth, always in danger of being closed down. Women's Aid are running a campaign about this very topic of the precariousness of funding for refuges at this very moment. Info is here

I find Aitch's questions quite pertinent and interesting. How far should the law go? I remember a case years ago of a very pretty little girl who was horribly abused for years and all the neighbours suspected or knew, but did nothing. I wonder what level of moral or legal responsibility they should have? And I do suspect that some of the most virulent and vicious of those neighbours after the event ("may she rot in hell, I hope she gets horribly tortured in prison") take precisely that attitude out of guilt. I don't find it a very helpful, edifying or useful attitude. I really don't see how advocating torture and abuse of a prisoner, however awful her crime, is helping to contribute to more understanding of the crime and therefore the chance to protect more children. TBH, I just find the "string 'er up" stuff quite stupid. Sorry but I do. I honestly don't see the point of it.

i dont believe that being sent to prison is a suitable punishment for such a crime in this day and age.
i find the idea that a woman who has stood by and let her own child be murdered should get sympathy and understanding very stupid,tbh.

Not just a case of how far should the law go, but also of how far would any one of us go in directly intervening? It's all well and good taking a moral stand but it's pretty meaningless if no one is prepared to act on it. See PeachyClair's post of Sunday 5th 10:11:10pm

I don't think anyone's got any sympathy for her divastrop

But I don't think understanding is ever wasted. The opposite of understanding is ignorance. And I know they say ignorance is bliss, but I don't think so. Knowledge is power and as long as we don't understand how and why men and women can do something as horrible as this, it will carry on happening. At least if you understand why something happens, you have a chance of changing it.

I totally agree that we all have a moral duty to stand up for those weaker than ourselves and if I suspected that a child (or adult) was being abused then I am pretty certain I would do the right thing and get involved in some way. I couldn't live with myself otherwise. If Aaron had been my nephew and I had known about the bruises and injuries then I would have done something. However, Lewis cut herself off pretty thoroughly from her family and when you're busy it is easy to let a week turn into a month. The sisters probably had no idea that Aaron was being beaten especially as it all seems to have happened so quickly.

i agree that more understanding of these sort of cases in general would be a good thing,caligula,as you mentioned before funding for womens' aid and other such organisations is a problem,and i suppose cases like this highlight the need for such organisations.

like many others on this thread,i feel very strongly about this case as i have a baby who is close in age to the little boy who was killed,so my comments reflect how i would feel if somebody were to harm my baby.and having been in a situation where i believed my son to be at risk of harm from his father,i feel even more strongly as i managed to get out.

yes i feel anger and hatred towards this woman,but nothing that is done to her can bring that little boy back.

It is a disgrace that there is so little funding available for things like womens aid.

Yes I guess some people do feel anger and hatred towards her. But I can't, I just feel incomprehension and real sadness. What a waste of life - hers, her child's and the awful man who did this. It just makes me quite depressed tbh. The whole bloody thing. And knowing that there'll be exactly the same sort of story in the news next week or the week after or the week after that, because it seems to be part of life. And I wonder if it will always be.