Leaving children 'home alone' - what do you think?

[KateMumsnet]

Hello all

A parent is arrested for leaving their child alone every day, according to new research.

The law doesn't currently specify the age at which children can be left on their own - and charges in the last three months of last year involved children between the ages of three months and 14 years.

What do you think? How old were your DC when you left them 'home alone' - and would you like to see the age at which a child can be left unsupervised defined in law?

Fake- do I think a 6 year old left alone for any length of time is in danger? Yes. Without a doubt.

I think you know half of the issue we are having with finding common ground is that various people are referencing various ages. I have said 12, in line with the poll. I can accept 11 but never lower than 10. Others are arguing for 6,7,8 or even 4/5! That's where I have concerns.

Asleep in bed for 90 sec? What danger would they be in and how would that danger be made worse by being alone for that length of time?

Flowergirl - no one has suggested that schools are responsible for children walking to and from school. I used that example to demonstrate that some schools feel that children from the age of 7 may be capable of walking home without adult supervision.

And neat sidestepping of the garden question.

Your absolute refusal to ever consider someone else may have a valid viewpoint or that your views are largely a result of cultural conditioning is really rather dogmatic. I can't imagine that's a useful character trait when working with adolescents.

Fake- this is so hypothetical now as to be daft but hey. In my house I think my daughter could easily wake up, shout my name, worry I wasn't there and, in a bleary eyed state fall down the stairs in a minute and a half.
Eve- I didn't sidestep it, I'd already answered it and yes, people have suggested that school is responsible for safety to and from school. I can't remember who (and can't be bothered to look) but that person said that this was proven by the fact that they take a register on arrival and that they teach road safety!!

Odd- have you considered my viewpoint? If I adopted the attitude that young people don't need supervising in my job I'd probably have been sacked by now!!
I am more than willing to see viewpoints from all angles (and yes this is very helpful in my job at which I do very well thanks). Sometimes though I don't agree.

Sorry- I said Eve and it was Odd...

I have considered your viewpoint and I agree with you in some respects. I wouldn't leave a child under 7 home alone for any amount of time.

I would say 12 is the youngest I would cond
sider this

was a latch key kid from 7 and it was horrible spending weeks and weeks alone in the holidays

I hated it as a child

What job exactly do you do Flowergirl? What involvement with adolescents do you have? Are you a counsellor?

I think the ROSPA stats were mentioned again - does anyone know if these break down into accidents happening when parents were present or absent? It's just a guess, but I would imagine that the risks with parents there might even be higher, as e.g. the parents might be cooking and leave a pan handle out, the child might be undertaking a slightly riskier activity because the parents are on hand (knives etc). A rational parent who makes an informed choice to leave a child alone has probably given clear instructions, and has made sure that they have taken appropriate steps to minimise risk.

If I leave my 11yo alone, I would not leave her with candles alight, for instance. Not that I think candles are inherently unsafe, or that I think she would not be able to safely extinguish them/not move them/call the fire brigade but because it's an extra level of risk that is unnecessary. If I were at home I might allow her to prepare a meal, I would consider her too young to do this by herself (she is a bit clumsy at times!). therefore she is more likely to cut herself if I am at home than out.

No I'm not Chaise.
Housemum- are you suggesting then that children are safer alone than with parents in the house? I can't see that to be honest.

For me it's not just about the accident, it's about the aftermath also. Kids have accidents and will do so even under supervision but under supervision there'll be an adult there to help.

Working with children and having children has programmed my thinking to what I feel is right and wrong AGAIN WHAT I think not everyone else but luckily my way of thinking is the majority way, having to deal with cp sg and even hs issues/concerns has maybe made me over cautious to things but that's not a bad thing. There is no going back once damage done. Not that I need to play the work with kids card as I know what's what imo,
Yes other countries do this and that and years ago we did this and that but this is here and now,
Think once law in place slap wrist will be all most parents need to amend their parenting ways
Though I would have a big bunch of flowers looking after my kids rather than fakers/shaggers/monkeys/ducks any day :) :)

2boys-

Jeez is this thread still going?

Flower, correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to have just the one child as you only talk about your daughter. There are many posters on here with two, three, more kids. Have you any idea of the difference in looking after just one compared with two or more? Have you any concenot of how parents actually manage that? 5 mad things seems to be doing a sterling job of parenting five kids at various ages. She cannot devote her entire time to watching over just one. She is like a million other parents. It's what we've been doing for years without a bloody manual or law to tell us how. We use our judgement and instincts based on each individual child. This is the point many have tried and clearly failed to get across to you. It's not age dependent, it's child dependent so a new law would not be appropriate.

No Vol. I've got two but one is only 7 months old so the discussion is irrelevant. She's pretty demanding though!

I have 4 all variant ages and I would not and have never asked my elders to look after my youngers .. They my children not my older ones
I gave seen in my own extended family and outside friends , younger siblings being left in the care of the older ones ... Luckily now this has been picked up with cp and hopefully it doesn't happen as much
My friends resented their siblings as they always had to look after them,
Most parents leave home alone for their own reasons of "no child care" "schools no after school club"
When you hear its not fair dragging 6 7 8 year old out to corner shop etc etc its as fair as 2 3 4 5 .....

Don't mean cp have picked up in family/friends I mean they can class it as a form of abuse

Not suggesting that they are safer, but that relying on all-accidents stats doesn't prove anything

Ok, I can wipe that one off the table then . But am ducking out now. Going round in circles.

Other than one final post. I'm a Sahm so childcare isn't an issue for me but I do think it's fine to nip out and leave children alone for a sliding scale of time:age ratio which is best judged by parents, not by a law.

Think once law in place slap wrist will be all most parents need to amend their parenting ways

Sorry 2boys, there is no law coming in. This thread is a result of a Times conducted survey and the DofE has already said there are no planned changes.

Flower, I do wish you'd stop going on about the 4/5 year olds being left. I have been bothered to re-read the thread and it was ONE 4 yr old left sick in bed for 10 mins whilst their mother picked her sibling up from a club. No-one commented on her post except you and no-one has agreed that was the right thing for her to do. The only posts about young children being left alone for 30 mins or so were involving 7/8 year olds. Lots of parents left 10/11 year olds - more so than those that didn't. Were you this inflexible and dogmatic in the classroom? Did your pupils respond well to your style?

When you hear its not fair dragging 6 7 8 year old out to corner shop etc etc its as fair as 2 3 4 5 .....

By that same logic it's just as fair taking 15/16/17 yo?

As I said earlier on it seemed most people on the thread deemed 'a short time' to be about two hours. By that measure I would say about age 12, may a little older even. So that also puts me exactly in line with the yougov survey. Difference is I would (depending on child) be happy to leave a 9yo for two/five minutes, and defiantly don't think (unlike flowers) a woman leaving children asleep in bed for 90 secs while she posted something across the street should be criminalised for that. That is one problem with a blanket ban set at whatever age, there are so many different factors at play.

A blanket ban would criminalise a parent who stepped outside for 15 sec to close a gate banging in the wind. Obviously I would hope nobody would be prosecuted for such a thing but that fact is that that parent would have broken the law and flowers has already said that she thinks it right to prosecute a parent for leaving the house for 90 secs, suppose somebody like her was in charge of this case.

Other examples-

10yo at home cuddled up on sofa watching TV with a bad cold, parent needs to take younger child to school, 3 minute round trip (like my school). If the parent left them at home they would be committing a criminal act.

4 children at home in bed, one starts fitting parent needs to call an ambulance but phone out of charge. She runs next door carrying fitting child to use their phone leaving the others in bed.

Parent needs to post a letter 3 min round trip 9yo twins at home watching TV, both know what to do in an emergency. Parents leaves them and is committing a criminal act.

Can those wanting a blanket ban really not see that there are so many different factors at play. Also do you think MPs will ever vote through a blanket ban? I think they are far to sensible.

Oh by the way, my fence blow down in the winds last night, I've just been outside fixing it (15 min?) some of that time I was on the road, so off my property, leaving all three of my children alone in the house.

Completely depends on the child! Left my 5 year old at home for 30 mins a day while dropping off 3 yo at nursery - he is a sensible boy who then wanted to walk home from school (500m) at 7 and now at 16 has gone to Paris on his for Easter to visit family there - dealing with transport (coach, train, metro) unaccompanied. Younger DC did not want to be left alone, not so independent, so we have got babysitters for him , and he has not been left alone.
Parents know their DC - for heavens sake leave this out of one-size-fits-all legislation.

Just a question about attitude to risk, I read this a while ago (maybe on here?) and thought it was interesting.

1. A 9yo child is out playing unsupervised, has some sort of accident and dies. The child didn't have to go out, parent thought it would be nice for them though so let them.

2. Parent drives 9yo child to MacDonalds, car crashes, child dies. The child didn't have to go out, they had food at home, parent thought it would be nice for them.

Statistical both activities carry the same risk/consequence profile. Apparently parents in the UK think parent 1 is irresponsible to have let this happen and 2 is just a tragic accident. Parents in Sweden think both cases are just tragic accidents.

I hope I'm remembering that right, anyway, that's the gist.