Tories considering benefit review for people with drug and obesity problems.

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I have to be really angry to start a thread in this topic .

Cutting benefits for people with addiction problems is surely only going to lead to them committing more crime to raise the money for drugs? Seeing as mental health support is already virtually nonexistent I can't imagine how they think this is going to work.

bbc link

This isn't about people getting better, for you, is it? This is about them demonstrating their moral worth to a self-appointed spectator (you).

How odd. It is about them getting better! I certainly wouldn't want the NHS to be suggesting treatments that wouldn't work. However, this is a treatment the doctor think would or could work.

it sounds like someone REALLY doesn't like and resents their aunt rather than has a sound medical argument to make.

counselling is not a treatment for a physical condition. the gp is purely demonstrating that he does not believe in the condition. no wonder she is not improving in any way if being treated by someone who refuses to even acknowledge that she is physically ill.

hello?

All medical practice inevitably suggests treatments that don't work. It's the nature of the beast.

All successful treatments and models of a condition are surrounded by a litter of failed "treatments" and models that were attempted but eventually dropped.

That's bad enough for patients, but unavoidable. Punishing patients for saying, "Er, this isn't working doc" is another kettle of fish entirely.

I would love to know what help they are going to put in place. I'd bite their hand off for any crumb of support. I'm overweight because I have an eating disorder which got worse and worse since I was a teenager and because I'm autistic. I've been on my knees begging for help to overcome it. The only help I ever got was a photocopy of a 'diet' sheet and lecture about not being greedy and putting less on my plate (really helpful advice for someone prone to starving themself).

Dd has a medical condition which isn't very well known. GPs don't have a clue. Some consultants we've seen don't have a clue. If she'd followed some of the medical advice we've been given, DD would be bedbound and clinically depressed. If she was a few years older, she'd have been unable to work and on benefits because of medical advice.

More than 1 in 10 DON'T get better though,...it makes their symptoms worse.
So it's not about "getting better" in your aunt's case, it's about taking a risk which could leave her feeling far worse. Yes she could end up feeling much better but if she has lived with this for a long time then she might not want to take the risk of feeling any worse.

'it sounds like someone REALLY doesn't like and resents their aunt rather than has a sound medical argument to make.'

Again, this is weird. Why would I resent my aunt? My tax contribution to her is vvvv small.

I am making a point about why the welfare services are entitled to rely on medical evidence. We are, presumably, all agreed that people can't just say 'well, I feel like staying home and being paid for'. In order to clarify who is entitled to support and who isn't, a doctor is going to need to be involved.

In my aunt's case, and others like it. The doctor is going to say that she hasn't taken treatment offered to improve her situation.

(Not sure how CBT would make something worse?! It's only CBT, and most of the people with ME say it is unrelated to their mental health.)

It does seem that there is a very rapid underlying agenda to demonise and scapegoat anyone who doesn't fit the middle/upper class profile. Early eugenics anyone?

Skolastika - why is this about class demonising? That sounds paranoid.

ME isn't a mental health condition so suggesting CBT isn't about making your aunt better. It's about helping her to cope with her symptoms in different situations.
More than 1 in 10 did not find it helpful and said it made things worse.

This is why as a "treatment" it is controversial and why people might refuse it....and should be allowed to continue doing so.

It's all a slippery slope, if we allow this enforced treatment then it's onto the next thing.

Well, to be fair to the GP, she did arrange for all the care my aunt currently has.

Really, the GP's right though. My aunt needs therapy to deal with the loss of 15 years if she is going to ever live normally. I recognise that the internet is full of people who think there is a medical conspiracy against them. And mental health issues are serious issues too, y'know. So I don't see why addressing this as a mental health issue diminishes it.

The loss of 15 years is awful .

A friend of mine (alcoholic) has just returned to work after 20 years of serious mental health issues. He is only now at a point where he feels able to do this, he is still an alcoholic, he has a zero hours contract but manages to get three secure days a week. He won't take any more at the moment as he has to balance his illness with his desire to work. He is also not able to face any treatment at the moment, the best he can do is drink after his shift finishes.

He is having to cope wh the loss of 20 years and it's hard so the GP is not unreasonable to want this support for your aunt.

The Government have little understanding of these issues. The demonisation of vulnerable people on benefits is just a way to divert attention from the real issues like tax evasion/avoidance of the very wealthy and of big Corporations. Most addictions stem from mental health issues and it's not just a case of getting people off drugs or alcohol.
Rehab doesn't work for the unwilling. An addict has to really WANT the help and many can't cope because of mental health issues.
This government is totally out of touch and totally uncaring.

My Mum is an alcoholic and has not really worked since before she had children (I am her oldest child and mid 40s). She was SAHM and then divorced on benefits. She could have done with some kind of intervention. But, because her benefits were never questioned, she moved from child-related ones to unemployed ones, to a pension.

Some support - even a bit of a kick up the bum might have helped her back into work (she is a nurse) and given her back some self-esteem which would have helped with the drinking.

She fights anyone or anything that gets in the way of her drinking and it is very, very frustrating. She is now too old for anyone to help her, disabled and housebound. But 25 years ago, she could have been helped.

AddtoBasket Paranoid? Maybe, I don't know. I just feel that those who have a harder time by virtue of things that they are not in control of are being further castigated by the government so that before long people will look with aspersion at anyone who is disabled or fat or somehow not 'catwalk perfect'. I don't think that this makes for a healthy society. And scapegoat-ism is hardwired into us. Unfortunately.

no cbt for ME is on the basis that they can control it by thinking different thoughts and behaving differently. re: they just think they feel tired and when they think they feel tired they can challenge that thought and behave differently. cbt for ME works on the basis that ME is a thinking disturbance rather than a physical illness. the reason it is dangerous and damaging for some is that it forces them to ignore their symptoms and push themselves beyond their limits by teling them their symptoms are imaginary thus resulting in major crisis of health as their symptoms aren't imaginary and they end up worse off for over stretching themselves and causing a major flare up unnecessarily on the basis of the advice of a non physician with a flaky certificate in cbt.

you are twisting things around now by suggesting it's to help her deal with the loss of years of her life when previously it was to TREAT her ME which is what this thread is about isn't it? refusing treatments for illnesses or conditions that prevent you working. ME is what prevents her working, the government doesn't want to help her accept she's lost years of her life they want her to work.

'My aunt needs therapy to deal with the loss of 15 years if she is going to ever live normally.'

She may never be able to 'live normally' because she is ill.

Has she lost her memory of the past 15 years? No? Then she hasn't 'lost' 15 years, she has been living with a disability.

ddtoBasket and I also think that the government only pay lip service to their desire to 'control drugs'. Like a previous poster, I think it is government policy to keep a volatile' underclass' impotent in this way.

I've had quite a substantial amount of support from MH services and so have other family members. Psychotherapy, CBT, CAT, occupational therapy, art therapy, monthly psych appointments, a cocktail of meds, weekly cpn visits, social services input, support to claim benefits, bus pass and housing. So there is certainly support out there, but it's limited, so it's reserved for those who are seen to have the most serious conditions and who are actively engaging in treatment. I think that's fair enough. Many of those who aren't being offered treatment are quite high functioning and can probably fund their own therapy which would enable them to have more choice anyway (most of it takes place during office hours and is hard to access for those who work).

my life has been a mixture of achieving well in education, professions, self employment and spells of not being able to work or study due to disability. i wasn't 'dead' and i didn't 'lose' the years where i was unable to work. i was alive and living with disability.

i've accomplished more in life than most of my peers but my years have been interspersed with periods, sometimes several years long, where brushing my teeth, getting dressed and managing to leave the house and/or prepare a meal would have seemed a major accomplishment. other people with similar conditions or less luck in terms of articulacy, ability to advocate for themselves, education, stubborness, ability to book a plane ticket and say fuck this (some would say irresponsibility but it saved my health and my sanity a couple of times) will have just been consistently house ridden and ground down by those conditions for the same period of time and not only by the conditions by the poor meds infilcted on them or their mistaken following of bad medical advice or continuing with a gp or consultant who they didn't realise they had the right to never see again and insist on seeing someone else.

many people need a good dose of 'there but for the grace of god...' in their cornflakes.

Yes, she is ill. She has mental health issues, delusion, terrible levels of fitness and stress exhaustion.

All of which is facilitated by the welfare system.

A lot of ME patients probably have an autoimmune illness, as 2/3rds respond well to Rituxan.

many people needa good dose of 'there but for the grace of god...' in their cornflakes. spot on honey badge*

This has nothing to do with the obese or addicts. The Tories are just trying to Burt the HSBC tax avoidance story as it's been in the papers for too long and to keep the fact that all banks and therefore a shed load more politicians and establishment figures have also not been paying tax.