Charlotte Wyatt to go into foster care

[ginmummy]

...because, according to the news, her seperated parents can't give her the care that she needs. It so sad, I want to cry. Poor, poor Charlotte, poor, poor parents.

Mykitty - I live in a world where sn is my reality every day - where I can only imagine the stress this family has been under. My eldest has sn and there that disqualifies me from having any other children because of the care she may or does need. Where I am only entitled to one child and whatever happens to that child - so be it. Smugness by parents who but for the grace of god could be in the same position as the Wyatts or any other family who has a member with sn. Smugness cause it is easy to sit in your ordered perfect life and judge and cast aspersions on others - again when but for the blink of an eye, an accident - you could be in their place. Ignorance for not even attempting to find a shred of empathy for any of the people in this unfortunate and obviuosly ver stressful situation.

You know - we aren't discussing Africa where high birth rates are linked to high mortality rates - parents have so many children in the hope that some will survive.

I live in a world that looks at my child and despises her - or worse thinks because I knew before she was born that she did not have the right to be born - given that she was not perfect and needed serious medical care. I live ina world that judges my child by their own ignorant standards - that look at me and dare to pity me - when in the blink of an eye they could be in a worse place than I will ever be.

I also live in a world where I don't presume to imagine or even comprehend what are other people's motives or what is going on in their lives. Where I try not to judge but am thankful every day for the lives of my children and for the life that I have.

To start questioning other people's reproductive rights is a very slippery slope fraught with all sorts of pitfalls and stirs up all sorts of emotions.

So not everyone plans their lives to the n th degree like you and mrs kitty - so - variety is the spice of life.

Spend a few hours in a children's cardiac and respiratory hospital as I have and you soon see the variety that is life - the despair and the desperation that parents face every day and perhaps you may gain a smidgeon of understanding for this family and their circumstances.

Sorry but your wife has no right to comment on other people's motives and reasons - so they had other children - again their right to do so - who are we to question that right. As so rightly pointed out by your wife - lots of people have lots of children for lots of reasons - do we punish those children for the supposed signs of their parents.

Life is not measured in $ value. It is priceless.

I also wonder what your theories on reproduction sit when I knew my daughter would require serious medical attention and major surgery beofre she was born as well as the fact that she would have special needs that would requirte life long monitoring and care of a variety of types - was that irresponsible of me to go ahead and have her???? Should I have terminated her at 20 odd weeks - save some money and not be a drain on the NHS and services.

So not only do you think that parents of children with SN shouldn't be able to have more children but now also those in Africa? Any other groups you'd like to add there, MrKW?

Do you seriously believe that if anything were to happen to Charlotte that someone somewhere would say "Right. Well according to my calculations we've just saved £x. Let's send that money to Africa instead and help the starving"? So how on earth is that 3yr-old little girl depriving them of life?

It's tricky. I have just seen what my dp wrote last night. He is a very practical man,not governed ever by his emototions and that is how he sees life.
I normally steer well clear of SN threads, my personal experience of sn is limited to ds1 and his problems and I have no interest in including my experiences on these threads. My experiences are not relevant on arguments like the ones about the Wyatts. If I'd considered for a moment that it was going to become about special needs I would have passed it by. To me it was purely an issue of responsibilty.
VVV has let me see how it can be seen as a sn issue.
I don't have an issue whatsoever we anyone anywhere having as many children as they want as long as they can support them and look after them.
Needing respite care is not the same as not being able to care for your child at all, as is the case with the wyatts and that is the issue I have.

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Yes Like Eidsvold my dd is an enormous drain on the NHS. I am sure that the money going on her cardiologist, SLT, opthalmology, portage,podiatry, orthotics, dietitians,dentist, geneticist, immunologist and DLA would go millions of miles more in Africa saving lives and improving infant mortality rates. Aids medication and education.
Yes this is my world, now do I feel guilty.
Do I heck as like. And what the hell I'm having another one! Damn the expense.
I would choose to savemy dd over anyone else, because she is MY LIFE. Just as anyone in Africa would choose to save their child.
it's not being selfish, it's called being a parent. And parenting is not based on fact, it's based on instinct, love and emotion.
None of which can be calcaulated prior to having your kids.

piffle, of course you would do that, so would I, but I don't see what that has to do with the discussion. Please explain.

Socci I would believe a two year old's view point over anything the daily mail had to say ever

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Mr Kitty is lucky to have never been in situation where emotion is all he has left. You can't judge what an emotional situation such as the Wyatts from a non-emotional stand point. All the googling in the world can't tell you what they were thinking or feeling.

My dh is a firefighter with almost 20 years service. He's seen some appalling sights, he's a logical thinker and his emotions are pretty well buried deep down. They have to be. But when they took his baby girl from his arms and said 'Mr X, I'm sorry, she's not going to make it' he was on his knees - and I mean literally. Emotions are all you have at that point, everything else means nothing.

where dp i live Mr Kitty? I live in a world where medical advances in technology costing hundreds and thousands of pounds has saved my dh life many times over. where he is on 'drain' on the NHS, but the same NHS we owe his life to. I lvie in a world where i go out with my dh checking batteries and wires all the time. I live in a world where i have seen people die due to lack of organ donors, or complications. I live i na world where we get by each day on a hope and a prayer. Where each day we pray for no infections, and for someone else to die, so dh can live.

Its a crazy f*cked up world you know. maybe i should've let dh die last summer so people could be saved in another country. Maybe we did the wrong thing. But maybe we are fighting a losing battle.

now where do you live mr kitty?

Mr.KW:
Same world that you live in actually.

People's health needs are not a 'drain' on the NHS fgs. People are what the NHS is for... what we pay our taxes for. The founders of the NHS would be appalled I'm sure about postcode lotteries, withheld drugs due to expense etc.

I'll tell you what is a drain though.... a computer system that isn't even up and running properly and has already cost over 6.2 billion, yep that's right 6.2 BILLION pounds.

What a patronising pile of arsewipe. 'You ladies'... I despair, I truly do.
It's like we are all supposed to simper and say, 'oooh a man has deigned to give us his wonderful, brainy, unemotional opinion (simper).'
Yes, love, it's all far too tricky for us 'ladies' to understand.
And you know everything by looking on Google.

Below the belt and lazy using starving Africans to justify yourself Kitty (I don't believe that was your husband posting last night, and yes, one of my previous comments could be seen to be below the belt and lazy, so in that sense I'm a hypocrite, just in case anyone feels like pointing that out)

Re Mr KittytheScaryGoblin's comment:

You ladies haven't actually done your resarch (sic) have you?

Do you have more pertinent information on the Wyatt case that the rest of us haven't seen yet?

If so, please advise us where it is so we can read it too. I would be very interested.

If, however, you are merely judging the family on what you have googled, perhaps it is the case that we are all party to the same information, but some of us are more able to view their current dilemma with compassion, rather than condemnation?

Charley I can assure you that it wasn't me, being pregnant and a mother of 5 children 8 and under I could never stay up that late.

I should walk away from this bloody thread.

Having slept on it I now realise that the thing which wound me up so much was the total and complete lack of empathy that is coming across from the "Wyatts are irresponsible" faction.

Without empathy, cruelty is much much easier. If you don't feel any empathy with someone, it's much easier to snigger at them, to bully them, to be unkind to them, to be cruel to them, to torture them, or to kill them. Everyone who has been guilty of any act of cruelty ever, whether it be sniggering at another child's misfortune, or torturing a political opponent, has managed to do so by suspending that precious quality normal human beings have, empathy.

And I guess that's why I found this thread so depressing and even a little frightening. Empathy is so important to a well-functioning person and society.

I'm not accusing anyone of being a psychopath or anything like that, or making any personal attacks here, but I think that's why on this side of the fence, lots of people were horrified. There is something rather horrifying about lack of empathy and lots of the posts appeared completely devoid of it.

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I think that's right caligula

I agree Caligula, witout empathy we are left with narcissism.
I have to say I also find any damning judgement based on media speculation very difficult to swallow. In a bizarre kind of way Mr KW is right, none of us are well researched - we cannot be, we don't actually have all the facts before us. If a high court judge found the Charlotte Wyatt decision very difficult and he had all the entire caselaid before him, how on earth can any of us possibly come to any well informed decision based on media speculation.

This is why empathy is all the more important in such an extreme and unusual situation.

I think the OP on this thread was about right. Poor Charlotte, poor parents.
Most of us are arguing furiously that we have no sodding idea what this family has been through, except it must be absolute hell. It is only a few posters who seem able to sit back smugly and making judgements.

Oh My God. So in the end it really does come down to money doesn't it: "spend thousands per week supporting Charlotte or spend that money supporting people dying in Africa"

What a nasty mercenary view. This thread really is pretty revolting. I agree with Caligula's view that there is a distinct lack of compassion here.

So what if looking after this child costs a lot? she is alive and deserves to live.

So what if the parents had other children afterwards? they are also aliove and deserve to live.

So what of they parents don't have a filofax and plan everything down to the last detail: neither do most normal people. Maybe nobody should ever have children ever, since we will all die one day anyway.

Or would it be good to introduce some sort of forced birth control into society? like they did in China after the Cultural Revolution? oh yes I forgot, this is about money isn't it. So just the poor people then.

BTW storming post misdee.

That's what I keep saying Donnie, yes it is down to money. That's not my decision nor is it my fault. However compassionate you are, it comes down to money. I suppose you could call it mercenary if you want but that's the world we live in, that's not my fault either.

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