islamist extremists strike in france

[KareninsGirl]

My thoughts are with the victims of the latest barbaric act by Islamic extremists.

The world needs to wake up and defend itself.

RIP those who died and prayers for those critically injured.

at French magazine office www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

Agree with WetAugust. And this doesn't just apply to Britain but to all European countries. No good labelling people who point out the unpalatable. This will only further strengthen the far right as people feel no one else listens to them. We are in danger of ending up in a situation like the 1930s and history repeating itself. The political elites have totally lost touch with the electorate across Europe not just Britain.

He suis Charlie!

I think it's highly provocative to state that the UK will be under Sharia law within 100 years. We could equally be under water as the result of a meteor strike or all have been wiped out due to a virus.

Man will not win the war with Mother Nature I'm afraid, regardless of who their God is.

Ubik I don't think religion produces extremity, I think people exploit religion for their own purposes, and use it to attract vulnerable, alienated, disturbed etc. people to further their personal cause.

It is no different from when terrorists used to be Marxists or anarchists, it is just a kind of ideology that people use for political purposes.

That's why it's really important to distinguish between Islam (the religion) and Islamism (the ideology).

I'm not religious but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with religion itself -- any religion. It's what people do with it. Unfortunately, it's a very powerful vector for mobilising violence. Islam is not any worse than Christianity in this regard, the reason you see so much Islamist violence right now is not because Islam as a religion is more violent but because there has been terrible upheaval and conflict in the Muslim world for quite some time now (and just to note, the most deaths there have been caused by secular leaders like Saddam and Assad).

WetAugust And what do you propose Britain and 'The West' does about this Muslim problem?

Three dreadful attacks on three different continents in under three weeks- we need to stand together and not blame Islam but extremism. As ever extremism is our enemy- the current manifestation is Islamic extremism but history tells us it could be anything.

Dreaming

That's just twisting the situation to suit your belief. Salman Rushdie is telling calling it a cancer within Islam that needs to be addressed. True / cancer, whatever it is a disease that we should fear

It's not scare- mongering at all to say that within 100 England will be an Islamic State. Don't be so infantile to say we may all give been swamped / nuked whatever. You know shaft I mean Its a fact. You may not like that fact but you cannot do anything to stop it and our Govt will not even admit there may be a touch if a problem

"Syria: nearly half rebel fighters are jihadists or hardline Islamists, says IHS Jane's report"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10311007/Syria-nearly-half-rebel-fighters-are-jihadists-or-hardline-Islamists-says-IHS-Janes-report.html

Assad has been fighting the jihadists and the jihadists have been funded and aided by some countries that are Western allies e.g. Saudi Arabia and Qatar etc.

The war against Assad has been funded and stirred up to destroy Syria.

Holy

The West can do nothing. zero. Zilch. I have said that my belief is that this country will eventually be an Islamic State. Multiculturalism has conditioned us to believe that our culture is not worth preserving and therefore we are unwilling to fight to keep it.
we are just living out the last few years of western democracy.

what do you suggest?

Claig

But we refuse to join forces with Assad to fight ISIS as we consider Assad is a nasty dictator.

Well I'd rather have a nasty dictator in charge in Syria and helping me combat ISIS than I would have broken countries that have been 'liberated' from their dictators by the West

The thing is at this moment in time Islam is the problem. As someone said upthread the Extremists are actually the ones who take their holy book to the letter, whilst your everyday joe blogs muslim would cherry pick which bits they uphold in their lives. Of course these extremists think they're doing right, they're following their word of god.

This is true for the majority of religions of course, but at this moment in time Islamic Extremism is the one we're dealing with.

For too long people have been scared of speaking out and trying to tackle this because of fear of being labelled prejudice - except of course the likes of the EDL and Britains First, who I personally think are another sort of extremist.

We have to be prepared to fight back, but how can we when they instil so much fear.

I totally agree Wet August and wonder if the British Isles will become like the Balkan situation. I think you may be right about EU migration.

I have no suggestions, I do not believe that there is a Muslim problem. Clearly there is an issue of extremism but I wholeheartedly believe that 'the West' has been complicit in the development of Islamic extremism.

It deeply saddens me to think that today's events will only serve to further fuel anti Muslim sentiment.

Wet I'm not sure you understand what a 'fact' is. Something that
will never happen in 100 years is by definition not a fact.

It's your choice to be so paranoid. Unless you can lay out the precise process by which the UK will overturn 2000 years of political, social and legal developments? It's ludicrous. It wasn't me who said we're more likely to be underwater but I agree with that.

Je suis Charlie!

My thoughts and prayers are with the bereaved and the terrorised in Paris today.

Like a few others here I grew up in NI. I think that many terrorists need to feel important, to feel like the 'big man' by controlling others rather than being specifically dedicated to any particular cause or religion. It really didn't surprise me that the Sydney attacker had a track record of violence against women. Different face of the same personality.

But other factors facilitate that personality finding its violent expression in the form of terrorism. It can be the ability to gain prestige within the community, perhaps for some it genuinely is religious belief, for some it's a job, a way to make a living either because their lives are funded so they can commit the act (whatever it is) or they earn money supposedly as a way of funding the terrorist organisation - thinking here about protection rackets, drug trade, arms trade or ISIS controlling oil fields.

What concerns me most is that so much of the islamic world seems to be turning its back on moderate islam. That is most violently seen in parts of the middle east and in attacks like today's, but countries that once had a semblance of being secular - like Turkey - have become ever more right-wing. Is that spreading the idea that to be a proper muslim you must follow conservative interpretations, just as much as Saudi money spreading its own particular ideology? That is quite dangerous, it seems to me.

As is the line that Charlie Hebdo brought this on itself. The people at fault today are the people who committed this atrocity and those who funded, supplied, protected and encouraged them - and only them.

'Well I'd rather have a nasty dictator in charge in Syria and helping me combat ISIS than I would have broken countries that have been 'liberated' from their dictators by the West'

Assad was our buddy before he signed the oil pipeline deal with Iran and Iraq which would harm the potential Qatari gas field exports and the pipeline to Europe etc.

"A London think-tank reports that Islamic State militants are making use of rockets supplied by Saudi Arabia that had been earmarked for so-called moderate rebels in Syria.

Maybe the militants just captured these rockets from the alleged moderates. Or maybe something else happened.

Citing the former head of British spy agency MI6, London's Independent newspaper says Islamic State forces are financially backed by wealthy donors in Saudi Arabia and Qatar, both of which are Western allies."

www.therecord.com/opinion-story/4856880-friends-and-enemies-flip-for-the-west-in-iraq/

The West can defeat Islamic terrorism. For a start it can tell states like Saudi Arabia and Qatar to clamp down on people funding the jihadists and it can clamp down on anyone buying oil from Isis which helps fund their operation to destabiliise Syria and Iraq.

All of the European political class fears Le Pen, but she will stop Islamic terrorism by not opposing Assad in his efforts to destroy the jihadists.

dreaming

some people just can't handle the truth.

Claig has summarised why we're in this State.

Three suspects named. Two 30-something brothers recently returned from Syria and a teen.

This doesn't happen often (no offense Claig) but I do agree with Claig's last post about flip-flopping alliances in the ME. Apart from the bit about Le Pen. I'd rather we (Europe) didn't go ultra right wing (invariably means loss of liberty) in response to these right wingers of a different ilk

Can I also say - if it was mossad agents I assume they would have been professional enough to target the right address, which these men didn't, initially. So the tin foil hat brigade should be able to stand down....

I read online that the policeman gunned down in cold blood was muslim. Poor guy. Just proves that these evil extremists disregard all human life, including muslim lives. In fact I've been thinking about this today and feel that these extremists have killed and done midday damage to their fellow muslims. It defies logic. They defy logic.

It's utterly ridiculous to state that Britain will be an Islamic State in 100 years.

Troels -- I think they also left their IDs in the getaway car! Definitely not Mossad.

Totally agree with your analysis btw. In a country I focus on for work, you have a lot of younger men put out of work, there are extremist groups lining up to recruit them, they pay them a good salary every month. It's not all about religion, there's a lot of different things going on.

You can do counter-terrorism all you want, nothing is really going to change until you get proper political and economic improvements in the Muslim world, and that is never going to happen as long as dictators run the show and we kiss their asses for oil.

Cleanmachine, I doubt they asked his religion before they shot him.

'I think they also left their IDs in the getaway car'

I saw a tweet about that. Not sure if it is true yet, but it sounds a bit like the 911 hijackers' passport found in the ruins of the Twin Towers. Doesn't fit well with the military style operation.

HolyShitSnacks I'm sorry that the plight of Muslims is making you feel sad today.

dreamingbohemian you talk as though there is a 'proper' Islam and the one the extremists made up. Theirs is just as real or unreal as anyone elses. They are taking their holy books literally, but in order to do that the holy books have to say the things in there.

If the book didn't exist there wouldn't be anything to take literally.

And yes the bible is just as bad. I've said this so many times. If you hand someone a book and say "this is the word of god" and they read the bit about killing people and go do it then you have to take some responsibility for that.

So that's something every religious person can do to help. Say "this is not the word of god, it's just a book. Read it by all means, but don't get the idea that what it says is always right"

DreamingBohemian

Sorry, but that's a load of rubbish. And you have 100% misunderstood what we are saying.

"They are Islam"? Who said that? Not me.

Islam is not a "they". It is not one person, or even a group of people. It is an ideology written down in a series of books.

Muslim is the word we use when talking about human beings in relation to Islam...it is not synonymous with Islam.

These extremists do what they do in the name of, and more importantly, because of Islam. This is undeniable.

When you have a teaching that says "kill anyone who insults the prophet" - and people who "insult the prophet" get killed, how on earth can you then claim they are not representative of the teaching/ideology?

And yes...I personally would say that extremist Christians do represent Christianity. The Westboro Baptist church are utter cunts, but they are the best and most devout Christians on earth. Because the Bible does indeed say "god hates gays" (hate the f word that they usually use).

In order to be a decent human being, you can't also be a strict adherent to Christaintiy. The same is true of Islam.