Conservative Carswell defects to UKIP 2

[claig]

"Patrick O's face was an absolute picture as he tried to puzzle out WTF that bloke in the audience was on about"

Yes, typical BBC to go to a questioner by name who said that UKIP policies were "madness" on the first question of the programme after just one panellist had answered.

You have to admire them for keeping on trying but the won't succeed. The people know the game.

[claig]

Diane James is excellent. She could easily be UKIP leader in the future. She would wipe the floor with the arrogant spinners.

[claig]

Landslide.

Biggest increase in the share of the vote for any party in any by-election in history, and yet on BBC Question Time which was live from Clacton there was hardly a single audience member filmed who was pro UKIP, they were nearly all against UKIP.

That is the BBC. That is the game. It's always been the same. That's why there were protests in Scotland about their impartiality.

[Isitmebut]

Apparently the main local issue in Clacton was immigration, which nicely fits in with Ukip’s main focus of Westminster power, from the UK leaving the EU, to Ukip becoming the 3rd largest party in the UK.

Ukip with 24 MEP’s and the trust of those voters is actively campaigning to STAY IN the EU and Farage interviewed this morning proved it, when asked won’t allowing Labour back in KILL a EU Referendum, he again LIED to Sky on Cameron’s apparent inability to carry through with his “cast iron guarantee” to give the UK a referendum on finally joining the EU.

That in/out guarantee was during a Labour government and prior to Brown signing the Lisbon Treaty and the EU becoming enshrined in UK law; as once you ARE in, the deed is DONE, so the question is then do we want to leave.

Furthermore how politically disingenuous is it for Farage, the LEADER of a political party that has got thus far on BRINGING US OUT of the EU, then blame Cameron and the Conservatives, that thanks to Ukip, have NEVER HAD A MAJORITY IN PARLIAMENT 9since that “cast iron guarantee”) to pass a UK law that guarantees the people an EU referendum.

Carswell went all ‘swivel eyed’ on the BBC last night ranting about ‘change’ time and again with no detail other than the apparent need for Ukip to oust sitting MP’s through social media misinformation, but what IS going to change?

Is Ukip going to ‘change’ the £100 billion budget deficit and accumulating National Debt to zero, fix the economy and all other nice things by magic?

Or is Ukip’s ‘change’ promoting negativity for votes on anti immigration, anti politics, anti politicians, nationalism and populist policies difficult with our deficit/economy to deliver, ‘it’?

The only political change in the UK I can see from a Ukip betraying their ‘leave the EU’ voters, will be a more concentrated politics of hate to dissatisfied voters looking for magic solutions to their problems.

FYI France’s National Front under the 'softer' approach to nationalism Ms Marine Le Pen, has 23 MEPs (to Ukip’s 24) and in September this year, won their first two seats in the French Senate which she hypocritically called “a breath of fresh air” – so with Rochester to come and in the bag, Farage’s ‘new’ Ukip similarity to Frances Front National will nearly be complete – once they become the 3rd largest party and we remain in the EU, that is.

You will now hear Ukip's 'change' mantra from Carswell in the UK parliament, as Farage pretends Ukip (who wouldn't need to exist on an EU exit) still wants the UK to leave the EU, right up to the next General Election - as they disingenuously gain votes to become that 3rd party as in France.

Is that REALLY the 'change' to British politics we need when our problems are economic/financial/continual UK growth?

[claig]

' as Farage pretends Ukip (who wouldn't need to exist on an EU exit) still wants the UK to leave the EU'

What you don't undestand is what UKIP is. Of course it will need to exist because unlike Carswell, who is really still a Tory except he wants to leave the EU, the public are not Tories and leaving the EU is not their main concern.

The public want UKIP to exist for all the things that Carswell doesn't think are really important.

UKIP is not going away because Carswell andleaving the EU is not why the people vote for it.

[AgaPanthers]

The UKIP candidate in Heywood made quite a bit of progress in eight months - February in Wythenshaw, 18.0% of the vote +14.5%, October in Heywood & Middleton - 38.7% of the vote, +36.1%.

We probably won't get any more by-elections in Labour seats before the general election, but based on that result you'd expect the Tories to start losing deposits....

[WetAugust]

Can't believe a Tory is still calling a UKIP person swivel-eyed

By doing so you firmly validate yourself as an absolute dinosaur that just cannot adapt to change

[Isitmebut]

Ha ha ha .... 'CHANGE' into what, do you remember Mr Brown's mantra of 'prudence' regarding our finances, mentioned several times at least at PMQT, how did that work out now we know what he was hiding?

I saw/heard Carswell last night, if saying "I have been waiting all my life for a party like Ukip" when Ukip only offer negativity, WASN'T 'swivel eyed, I don't know what is.

A Conservative MP, not even a minister, now gets to be a party Deputy Leader to Farage and receive all that adulation from the unsuspecting, you could see that it has gone to his head.

[Isitmebut]

Claig ... The United Kingdom Independence Party through Farage gained legitimacy, votes, and MEPs for ONE reason, that through the UK leaving the EU, they said many of our problems would go away, especially open door EU immigration.

If Ukip TAKES AWAY the right of ‘the people’ to have an EU Referendum and focuses on the negatives of immigration (as they did in Clacton), knowing full well that unless Cameron can negotiate EU reforms on lowering immigration, by UK law as a member of the EU we have to adopt EU ‘openness’ to work in other countries – then what is the 'rump' of a New Ukip other than a newly legitimized National Front type party?

[claig]

The old Pimlico Plumber is back on the BBC. He was on BBC Question Time and now he is on BBC Daily Politics. He's probably the Establishment's secret weapon to combat UKIP. He thinks it's important to stay in Europe. He is being bigged up as our UK business champion on our BBC. He supports Cameron and says that "UKIP ara a bunch of lunatics".

Expect to see him as a Tory MP or Lord soon.

They're desperate. They're losing. Farage is making mincemeat of them and now they are throwing "everything they have got" at UKIP. Plumbers, slummers, toff table crummers, the whole flipping lot.

Mark my words, the BBC will give him much more coverage as the election draws near. They are giving him minutes of airtime to bless us with his wisdom.

BBC. They're desperate.

[claig]

The people vs the Pimlico Plumber.
The people vs the Tory doom-monger drummers.

Next the BBC will have the Pimlico Plumber telling us how windfarms are fantastic, how modernisation is essential and that we have only 5 years left to save the planet.

They're desperate. The people are going to win.

Send the Pimlico Plumber to Clacton as a Tory candidate MP, make him a Tory MP or even a CBE, they think "we're too poor, too stupid and too wee", that's our BBC and all their PPEs.

[claig]

We're going to see lots more "working class" Tories on our BBC as the election draws near.

They'll speak with Cokerney accents
"Gor Blimey Guv, Cameron's the Geezer, the Tories are the people's party, them UKIP are a bunch of lunatics"

and the BBC will treat them with great respect and ask for more of their learned views, and they will ask them what their views on global warming are and the Cockerneys will say that "Cameron's saving the planet for all those polar bears, he's the Guv'nor, the Geezer, a PPE. Don't vote for Farage, he'll ruin your plumbing business and your chance to get a CBE"

[Isitmebut]

Claig .. are you saying that the economy is not important to people running businesses like Pimlico, investing and hiring people – are you mad, as just because Ukip want to ‘change’ the recovery and concentrate on a class war that began in the 19th century, with puerile political name calling, over Ukip policies to create jobs – those in the real world are worried the UK is no where near out of the economic/debt/new jobs woods yet.

FYI whether a small company of major international, the opinion of just a few people within makes a difference to our economy, so why should we not hear more a small to medium sized businessman, rather than wait for them to vote with their feet?

The UK has not began a recovery by accident, Labour is more focused on putting UP the costs of doing business rather than bring them down, so ANY business now has to prepare for very different business conditions/costs under a 2015 Labour government – and if any sense will now HALT new investments/jobs.

That is not good for our annual deficit or our ability to finance the current Public Sector and current ministerial spending - or Ukip's additional £19 billion manifesto giveaway.

I do not agree with his view on staying in a European trading block shrinking in output, as all the others are rising, but THAT IS WHY THE UK NEEDS A EU REFERENDUM, where we get the pros & cons facts.e.g. on the real effect of UK employment versus less immigration if leaving – that Mr Farage now wants to take away from those who voted Ukip to leave.

[Isitmebut]

Claig ... so tell me, are you now comfortable with a Ukip 'rump' no longer caring about an EU referendum, yet concentrating on immigration as an issue?

In the pursuit of Westminster power at the expense of their core anti EU vote, what would be the difference then between France's Front National and Ukip?

[claig]

'are you saying that the economy is not important to people running businesses like Pimlico'

Of course not. How many people does the Cockerney Pimlico Plumber employ compared to UKIP's latests donorwho defectd from theTories, the £100 million worth Aaron Banks?

Let's have some business people on our BBC who employ thousands of people and turnover hundreds of millions of pounds as well as te Cockeney Plumber who thinks Cameron is the Geezer and tha "UKIP ara a bunch of lunatic". The PPEs on our BBC must be laughing up their sleeves, they really think "we're too poor, too stupid and too wee"

I hope Pimlico Joe goes to Rochester. Let's see if he can turn it round for the Tories against the people's party.

[claig]

'so tell me, are you now comfortable with a Ukip 'rump' no longer caring about an EU referendum, yet concentrating on immigration as an issue? '

They care about both issues as well as "cutting the green crap" and direct democracy, local referenda and proportional representation, an end to the bedroom tax, cuts in income tax, abolition of inheritance tax, taking minimum wage earners out of taxation totally etc etc

That's why the Tories are terrified. That's why Pimlico Joe and the Cockerney Conservative Cameron Championing Charlies are on the BBC.

[claig]

I think the Pimlico Plumber is called Charlie, but I'm not sure, although he certainly sounds like one.

The Tory supporting plumber from Pimlico reminds me a little bit of the Republicn supporting plumber in the US, Joe the Plumber

"Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher (/?w?rz?lb??k?r/; born December 3, 1973), better known by the nickname "Joe the Plumber", is an American conservative activist and commentator. He gained national attention during the 2008 U.S. presidential election when, during a videotaped campaign stop in Ohio by then Democratic nominee, Senator Barack Obama, Wurzelbacher asked Obama about his small business tax policy. Obama's response included the statement, "when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." Obama's response was seized upon by conservative media, as well as by Obama's rival, Republican nominee Senator John McCain, as an indication that Obama was interested in the redistribution of wealth and had a socialist view of the economy. Wurzelbacher is a member of the Republican Party.[1][2]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_Plumber

UKIP have the people and the truth, the Tories only have the BBC and spin.

[Isitmebut]

Claig ... I do find it strange, that you can utter so much political propaganda, yet get a gasted flabber when someone from the real world/economy speaks out against a party that now offers voters NOTHING as 'change', but ensures a 2015 Labour government with 'previous' on the following and thus business expectations now.

• Higher Corporation Tax.
  
• Higher Income Tax compensation (salary) for senior staff, using international remuneration scales.
  
• Higher regulatory/red tape costs.
  
• National Insurance costs.
  
• Higher Fuel Escalator costs,
  
• Higher costs of government intervention e.g. Energy Company ‘price freezes’.
  
• Interest Rate/Borrowing Costs as they ‘normalize’ to historic averages, with or without a Labour Government policy threat rate premium.
  

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-389284/The-80-tax-rises-Labour.html

Here are some thoughts on what drives employment/growth/jobs, and then look at the above, when Labour inherited in 1997 the fastest growing economy in Europe.
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/10472446/EY-Cutting-UK-tax-draws-in-more-multinationals.html

Stick to your political class name calling when the problems remain the same no matter who is in charge, it's clearly what you 'do' best.

[AgaPanthers]

Hmm.

Surely the Pimlico Plumber owner would be in favour of the EU seeing as it provides him with so many of the proverbial Polish Plumbers to keep his costs (and pay!) down and therefore profits up.

Actual plumbers not so much.

[claig]

'Stick to your political class name calling when the problems remain the same no matter who is in charge, it's clearly what you 'do' best.'

But you don't get it. The reason "the problems remain the same whoever is in charge" is because those in charge are applying the wrong solutions. As the wise voters all say "they're al the same".

UKIP is diifferent, UKIP represents change and that is what the people showed that they want as they voted yesterday.

The Pimlico Plonker wants more Cameron, more of the same, more crap.

That's not where the people are, that's why the Tory spinners are in a panic, they don't know what to do, they know the people "won't be fooled again" as the Who wrote in that famous song. The Tories know it's over, goodbye and so long.

[Isitmebut]

Claig ... so as Ukip will not be forming the next government in 2015, then YOU are comfortable with Ukip becoming the National Front party here?

EVERYONE should be afraid of a UK National Front party that has crept up on the UK political scene, in what they stand for, and their ability as a political parasite to pick up votes when real political party's have to make tough £100 billion deficit decisions - as it will affect the ability of UK government going forward, to MAKE those decisions.

The Conservatives doing the right thing in fixing the UK will be highly frustrated at Ukip's NFish rise, but not terrified, as they can do no more than what they are doing with a huge deficit

So if the voters at the General Election chose Ukip, therefore Labour, so be it, the Coalition can leave with a clear conscience the country is in a much better condition in 2015, than when it was handed to them.

Then they get to watch the electorate start to blame Ukip with nothing to offer but negativity and fear, for Labour's policies, which won't bode well for their existence as a NF party in 2020. IMO

[claig]

'Hmm.

Surely the Pimlico Plumber owner would be in favour of the EU seeing as it provides him with so many of the proverbial Polish Plumbers to keep his costs (and pay!) down and therefore profits up.'

Good point. Are there any clips of him talking.

I wouldn't be surprised if he comes out with the usual denigration of British workers and young people that the capitalist elite, the Tories, Boris Johnson and the PPEs all seem to say - i.e. that British youth are feckless shirkers and don't work as hard as Poles.

[claig]

UKIP aren't the National Front, they are the party of the people, the party that voters in Clacton returned in a landslide as they toppled the Pimlico Plonker's party of choice.

I want UKIP to hold the balance of power so that UKIP can bring in PR, direct democracy and local referenda, and to free the people so that every person's vote will count so that people will decide how they are governed and not some out-of-touch bureaucracy backed by lobbyists, business leaders, plumbers or plonkers.

[AgaPanthers]

Claig: yes he does say British workers are lazy:

realbusiness.co.uk/article/23023-migrants-fill-the-gap-in-uk-talent

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2521076/The-bosses-love-jobs-Brits-werent-LAZY.html

[Isitmebut]

Claig ... in saying the economy, business confidence, jobs, deficit in 2010 and 2015 is more of 'the same' and the many policies Osbourne has brought in since 2010 did not make a difference, is just base ignorance - but explains why you have got brainwashed by your own propaganda. Dah.

A word to the unwise, the more Ukip disingenuously utters 'change' with nothing to offer but puerile class name calling, the more likely the electorate will wise up to it in 2015 - so keep it up.

The Uk's problems in 2015 will be no different whether the swivel eyed, Eatonians or Numb Nuts that caused them come to power - IT IS WHAT THEY DO AFTERWARDS - just citing 'change' as a solution over and above what has been done, will only get businesses to change, their investment plans, new jobs and underwear twice a day.

[Isitmebut]

Is the same Ukip on here now trying to assassinate a medium sized businessman with an investment in Britains future from telling it how he correctly sees future business conditions, the same Ukippers who whinge when the people/media dares question their soundbites - I can hear the old BNP Jackboots from here, why not send around 'Vic and the boys' to sort im out. lol