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Conservative Carswell defects to UKIP 2

102 replies

claig · 09/10/2014 22:51

"Patrick O's face was an absolute picture as he tried to puzzle out WTF that bloke in the audience was on about"

Yes, typical BBC to go to a questioner by name who said that UKIP policies were "madness" on the first question of the programme after just one panellist had answered.

You have to admire them for keeping on trying but the won't succeed. The people know the game.

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claig · 12/10/2014 00:26

That's good. Grin

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WetAugust · 12/10/2014 00:25

You only need to read Lord Ashdowns tweets. He's talking about the right time to jump (cryptic). He's also saying the Tories need to change their advisors. This from a chap who was Deputy ?? party Chairman? I think that shows just how out of touch even what were the inner circle now feel.

Dave has lost all credibility. I'm not one of those who questioned his credibility from Day One. I did when he recruited the multinationals to give their doom mongering predications and then so easily dismissed Scottish result. has he mentioned sCotland recently? No Box ticked. Move on.
That was an indicator of now any EU referendum would be played out.

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WetAugust · 12/10/2014 00:19

Claig
if you want a good laugh take a look at. Lord Wabbit on twitter. That poster has a Grant Shapps thing that is really funny

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claig · 12/10/2014 00:15

Farage doesn't do "soundbites", he is different to the rest of them. Farage does "principle". He has a vision and he will follow it through. It is not the vision you like i.e. the modernisers' vision (or lack of) such as spending £11 billion on foreign aid a year, hugging a husky, hugging a hoodie, installing a rooftop wind turbine on his home, highfiving Juncker in Brussels etc etc

Farage doesn't go for that type of thing. He believes in cutting the crap and that is why the good people of Clacton delivered the biggest landslide in post-war British political history to Farage and the team.

'how is he going to improve the lives of millions of lives by sitting snugly as the new elite in Westminster and giving the UK economy back over to Labour ?'

The words Farage used were "I am going to hold Labour's feet to the fire". No wonder they don't want him in Parliament. They know, and the people do too, that he means what he says.

You have failed to learn the lesson of the most monumnetal change in politics that we have seen this past week. The Conservatives are finished, it's over, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. And the reason is that they are out of touch and cannot connect with the people, let alone with a huge chunk of their former voters. This is a snowball and it will only get bigger and then there will be more defections, more donors defecting and more and more election victories. That is why this is historic, nothing will ever be the same again.

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WetAugust · 12/10/2014 00:06

the problem with the Tories is that a lot of them should really have left years ago and joined the Libs.

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Isitmebut · 11/10/2014 23:59

Claig …. Farage and UKIP, who wants to take the UK down the French road to economic ruin for ‘Westminster elite’ POWER because he (and you) believes putting different, less educated bums in parliamentary seats will make the problems go away – THAT is the disingenuous ‘change’ you are selling to ‘the people’ and they are currently buying it.

But then they have a recent record of ‘buying it’ and will be paying for it for years; Blair taking over a balanced growing UK economy with a 177 parliamentary seat majority as he was politically ‘different’, before Clegg gained all those seats in 2010 for also being politically ‘different’ to the main parties – but I reiterate, the problems remain the ‘same’ so UKIP needs to offer tangible, innovative solutions, otherwise Farage and his merry men become the less government experienced NEW ‘Westminster elite’ fiddling with soundbites, as the UK burns.

So where you are right is there is little the Conservatives can do in answer to UKIP misrepresentations, other than do what is what is right for this country, provide a economic recovery in the UK as most other economies in the world struggle.

Farage who lied for 20-years what UKIP could do, could not run one candidate in Claction, how is he going to improve the lives of millions of lives by sitting snugly as the new elite in Westminster and giving the UK economy back over to Labour ??

P.S. What Thursdays by-election result shows in the real world is that probably the only way UKIP would not come second in a by-election ‘protest vote’, was to gain momentum by buying a sitting popular Conservative MP with a Deputy Leadership title and god knows what else. ‘New’ politics or dirtier politics run along corporate lines by a rich owner of a FTSE company with political ambitions?

Stuart Wheelers Ukip is a long way from a ‘reverse takeover’ of the Conservatives sweetie, and to suggest it is pathetic really as it assumes all Conservatives don’t follow policies.

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claig · 11/10/2014 22:27

Farage has ruled out a pact with the Tories. So that is the beginning of the end of the Tories. I have no doubt at all that in 5 to 10 years' time or possibly even sooner, UKIP will be the main opposition to Labour and UKIP will beat Labour because Labour are politically correct and UKIP aren't.

The Establishment will try and stop UKIP by putting their own politically correct spinners into UKIP to try and divide it and to challenge Farage for leadership etc. But if Farage can keep control of the party, then nothing can stop UKIP.

There is nothing the main parties can do to counter UKIP because they are full of politically correct spinners from Oxbridge and Farage is everything that they are against and everything that they are not. They will continue patronising us, lecturing us, insulting us, dismissing us and ignoring us and that is why we won't go back to them. They are not on our side andnow nearly all of is know it.

They are so stupid that they put arrogant politicians like Ken Clarke on TV, who insults UKIP voters which means we will never go back. And Ed Miliband is trying hard but doesn't get it. Calling UKIP divisive and a voice of despair after we have voted for them just shows how out of touch he is with our views, which means we will never go back.

UKIP is going to beat them all because they can't change, a leopard can't change its spots and the Oxbridge spinners they hire to advise them can't think laterally, they can't think outside the politically correct box.

They better hire the Guardian's John Harris. He is the only left winger who can help them because he doesn't despise us, he understands the people and knows what we think and feel.

"The Guardian writer John Harris, one of the few commentators who refuses to patronise Ukip voters, put it very well last week.

‘In essence, Ukip has a simple human story to tell,’ he wrote. ‘People feel abandoned; this new force assures them it will listen.

‘They complain of being insulted and patronised; Ukip insists they should never apologise for who they are.’

As Thursday’s results showed beyond any doubt, Ukip’s ‘human story’ now has both tremendous resonance and an apparently unstoppable momentum."


www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2788866/our-sneering-political-elite-howl-rage-change-politics-forever-writes-historian-dominic-sandbrook.html

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Isitmebut · 11/10/2014 22:18

U-kippers like Claig misrepresenting the truth, go figure. lol

"The peoples army" the anti establishment economically illiterate party, better known in France as the Front National, where their socialist politicians (similar to Labour) UKIP wishes upon us, are just as useless in offering a future for our children.

So what good has the UKIP French equivalent, the anti EU, anti immigration, anti establishment ‘peoples party’ , the National Front done to help ‘the working man’ there???

Well this is what the Conservative led coalition’s numerous reforms HAS DONE for the ‘working class’ here resulting in less new Labour taxes to all, but tax cuts and pension increases, economic growth and 1.8 million new jobs here – and Farage’s UKIPs quest for POWER in Westminster,will look to destroy.


“UK economy will overtake France to become second biggest economy in Europe next year, IMF predicts”
• UK output predicted to be £1.9trillion next year against France's £1.8trillion
• IMF said France held back by 'bloated' public sector and high state spending
• Britain set to be fastest growing economy in the developed world this year

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2788664/uk-economy-overtake-france-second-biggest-economy-europe-year-imf-predicts.html


UKIP + Labour = France, and the sooner we have a Referendum and get an 'OUT' vote, the sooner we can stop ALL of an economically stagnant Europe, gravitating to our shores looking for work.

“French say au revoir to France: Over two million French people now live abroad, and most are crossing the channel and heading to London”
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/french-say-au-revoir-to-france-over-two-million-french-people-now-live-abroad-and-most-are-crossing-the-channel-and-heading-to-london-9788348.html

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claig · 11/10/2014 21:55

No, I was making it up. I was too lazy to get down there. Shame, I would have loved it.

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WetAugust · 11/10/2014 21:40

Did you actually go to Clacton then Claig?

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claig · 11/10/2014 14:12

The Rebellion of Clacton in the Year 2014

I went to Clacton during the campaign and stepped into a pub (not because I’m a binge-drinker as the metropolitan elite say the people all are, as those privileged blighters try their utmost to increase the minimum price of alcohol for working people), but because I wanted to see the mood of rebellion in the People’s Uprising of 2014 for myself. I’d heard about it, everyone was talking about it, everyone agreed with it, I just wanted to see it.

The pub had the BBC on the TV and a reporter said that the Tories were stepping up their campaign, they were sending their “big hitters” in, and the whole pub just erupted in laughter.

“Big hitters? They’ll get knocked out,” someone said.

And I nodded as I knocked back my second large drink. Hadn’t any of their highly-paid advisers told the “big hitters” that this was Clacton, that this was Essex, that this was the real deal? Don’t they study the Peasants’ Revolt of 1381 at Oxford when they do their PPEs? Don’t they know that it all began in the villages and towns of Essex on the East Coast of England all those many years ago? Hadn’t they read that the villagers in 1381 were all in agreement that the metropolitan elite were out of touch and that they feel exactly the same way now in 2014? Don’t they know that 1381 is still taught at every mother’s knee in the town of Clacton-on-Sea? 1381, the year we had ‘em on the run.

The BBC filmed the “big hitters” as they stepped off the train that took them from the metropolis to Clacton. None of them had ever been here before, they were fish out of water, lambs to the slaughter, this was Essex, this was the real deal. They’re usually found in the bars, restaurants and private members’ clubs of Westminster, Mayfair and Belgravia, doubtless putting it all down on expenses that the residents of Clacton have to pay. You could tell they were “big hitters” from their top hats and tails and their Bullingdon Club ties, and as they arrogantly strode through the streets of Clacton trying to shake the people’s hands, the locals all gave them a very wide berth indeed. People were literally scarpering and running, I’d never seen such speed.

Someone in the pub shouted “muppets” and everybody laughed. It was a former lifelong Tory voter who was enjoying his drink. He had once been a Tory councillor, but everyone’s entitled to make a mistake, no one held it against him, for he had long since seen the light, had torn up his membership, had joined the people, had done what was right.

The BBC cameras followed the “big hitters” as they knocked on doors in a street in Frinton-on-Sea.

At the first house they knocked at, a man opened the door. A Bullingdon Club member said “Good morning sir, we’re from the Conservative Party. Can we rely on your vote?” The BBC broadcast the reply.

“Beep beep you beep.”

And the whole pub cracked up laughing.

A chastened PPE shrank back in shock. This was his first experience with the people, they hadn’t taught him this in the rarefied atmosphere of Oxford University, among the spires and the squires. This was Essex, this was the real deal.

The "big hitters" moved on to the next house, hoping the response would be a bit more favourable. An old-aged pensioner with a zimmer frame struggled to get to the door

“Good morning madam, we’re from the Conservative Party. Can we rely on your vote?”

“Beep beep you beep,”
was the reply and all of the pub cheered and raised their glasses high.

The BBC had not seen anything like this. They don’t usually come down here, down to Essex, down to the real deal. They’re usually in the metropolis, swanning around in taxis, chinwagging and spinning with politicians, probably all paid for by the residents of Clacton.

The "big hitters" knocked on the next door and a young woman opened the door.

“Oh hello, are you from UKIP, the People’s Army?” she asked with a big smile.

“No, madam, we’re from the Conservative Party. Can we rely on your vote?”

“Beep beep you beep,” she said.

And the whole pub stood up, raised their glasses and cheered.

And so it went on and we had never laughed so much. We were all united, all excited, we were all as one. The people of Essex were going to make history, just like in 1381.

And as I walked out of the pub into the pitch dark, because the Tory council had turned off all the street lights after midnight to “save the planet”, against the wishes of the residents who pay the taxes that pay their wages, I realised what was going on – this was a rebellion, a revolt, a bit like 1381.

And now it would move on, to Rochester in Kent.

“Wot larks, Pip”

The old master, Dickens, must be smiling down at us from Heaven. He has Great Expectations for the people of Kent in his old famous stamping ground of Rochester. He would have loved this if he was still here, he would have raised his glass and uttered a cheer. He never liked the metropolitan elite either, he was people through and through, and as for the Bullingdon Club, wot larks he would have made of those bumbling buffoons, those toffs without a clue.

The Tories said they would throw everything they had got at it, but I knew it was nowhere near enough. They could throw all the spin and smears and fears that they had got at the people of Kent, but all their goodwill had long been spent. And where on earth did they get off on calling people feckless, they would now be routed by the People’s Army led by fearless Farage and a man called Reckless. The people across the country – middle class, working class and even some of the upper class have all had enough, they’ve all gorn UKIP, the Tories won’t be able to make even a dent. The PPEs and Oxbridge academics will scratch their heads as they try to understand where all their voters went.

So if the People’s Army is coming to a town near you, you know what you have to do. Don’t be put off by Pimlico Plonkers, Tory lies, spin, smears and politically correct policies that are bonkers. Do Dickens proud, remember 1381 and boldly do what must be done. Stand firm, ignore the insults that call the people lunatics and barmy, put a big fat cross against the People’s Army.

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Isitmebut · 11/10/2014 00:39

What a shame for the people of Clacton, although I did warm them of this.

”Douglas Carswell UKIP win ‘a crying shame’ for Clacton”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-29565948

"The victory of UKIP's Douglas Carswell in the Clacton parliamentary by-election is "a crying shame", according to a mayor in the constituency.
Iris Johnson, the Independent mayor of Frinton and Walton, said she did not think Mr Carswell would effect change."

"By going over to UKIP, he's got no party backing now. How's he ever going to get anything done? He'll just get outvoted every time," she said."


Still, Mr Farage and Mr Carswell are getting what they wanting all along, especially Farage who has been playing the 'long game', pretending the UK leaving the EU was the United Kingdom Independence Party priority, over Westminster POWER.

"Farage says ‘UKIP could hold the balance of POWER’ at the next election’"
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29572185

"We've got a chance here in a general election next year that is likely to be very tight, in an election in which no one party is likely to have a majority. If UKIP can keep this momentum going, we could find ourselves next May in a position where we hold the balance of POWER."

At the next General Election, NOTHING will galvanize the CORE Labour and Lib Dem votes that the PROSPECTS of a power mad further right wing than Conservatives racist party (UKIP) holding the country as a political hostage - and as Labour only need 31% of the vote to form the next government, they will win DESPITE Miliband, as the Labour voter lesser of two very different evils. IMO.

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claig · 10/10/2014 18:24

How can the spinners save their seats?

The Pimlico Plonker?
Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

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claig · 10/10/2014 18:22

The spinners say that Farage makes policy on the bag of a fag packet.

But if this is what Farage can achieve by devising strategy and policy on the back of a fag packet in between rounds at the Dog and Duck, what will he achieve when he starts to get serious?

You ain't seen nothing yet. It ain't over until the bell rings, the Tory spinners are totally devoid of ideas, tricks and things.

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claig · 10/10/2014 18:11

They said that Gordon Brown was holed up in Number 10 in the dying days of New Labour, throwing mobile phones and tantrums as power slipped from his grasp.

But what on earth is happening at Tory HQ? Journalists have tried to phone Head of Policy and Strategy, Sir Archibald Jefferson-Smythe, PPE with Honours, but have been told he will be unavailable until further notice.

It's absolutely desperate down there.

"Fat arse" is mild compared to what the PPEs are calling upstart Farage, champion of the people.

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claig · 10/10/2014 18:05

OMG

Just when the Tories are reeling and UKIP are rolling,sweeping up every voter before them, Farage hits the spinners with a haymaker in the solar plexus.

The man's a genius a modern-day mavel, a political sage

"Ukip urges MPs to defect 'en masse' without by-elections

Nigel Farage to use new strategy to encourage MPs to join his party without risk of losing their livelihoods"
...
He told Sky News: "We are ripping lumps out of the old Labour vote in the north of England. The truth of what has happened in the North today is that if you are anywhere north of Birmingham , if you vote Conservative you get Labour.
...
In a bid to spread disarray in Conservative and Labour ranks, Mr Carswell will personally lead a campaign to convince MPs to cross the floor of the Commons instead of following his "honourable" example and triggering a by-election.
...
However, in a change of tack, Ukip sources said Mr Carswell will tell his former colleagues in the Commons tea room that they can simply cross the floor and sit as Ukip MPs until May.
...
"Come Christmas time, you can expect them to defect to us en masse," said one Ukip source with knowledge of the new strategy. "


www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage/11152627/Ukip-urges-MPs-to-defect-en-masse-without-by-elections.html

Who said politics wasn't intesting? Was it the Pimlico Plonker?
Who said change was impossible and that Cameron ad no Farage was the Guv'nor? Was it the Pimlico Plonker?

"Tim Aker, Ukip's head of policy, said: "There are no safe seats for the other political parties now. Ukip are coming to get you."

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TheLeavesAreTurningBrown · 10/10/2014 16:24

Yes but EE coming to work here are doing so from a different frame work.

Many, come with a time frame in mind to work and send money home where they can buy loads more with their buck.

That would help to insentivise them wouldn't it? They can also get tax credits for their DC even if they are back in EE. They are prepared to live, many cramped into horrid housing, 4 or more to a room to earn as much £ as they can.

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Isitmebut · 10/10/2014 16:18

Nah, i don't have to create distance with plumber hissy fits from 'probing' questions, I thought I save you the trouble of feeling the need to mention it on the NEXT page, as you have done for months (and years?) on here. lol

As there is 'clear water' between the Conservatives and Labour policies, we now have a Ukip no longer prioritizing the leaving of the EU, yet concentrating on immigration - don't we need to know what the alternative is to the 'Westminster elite' you k-e-e-p banging on about is really for, especially if assimilating a few of those you call elite, within?

And you wonder why the spotlight Wheeler/Farage craved by hedging your General Election bets by buying sitting MP's to keep up the Ukip momentum, will now firmly be fixed on Ukip? Enjoy.

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slug · 10/10/2014 16:16

Wasn't Joe the Plumber later outed as a racist who was actually unqualified to work as a plumber and had dodged taxes?

Perhaps finding a UK Joe the Plumber would not be a sensible thing for a UK party to do? (Apart from UKIP who seem to revel in that sort of stunt of course)

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claig · 10/10/2014 15:50

'Ha ha ha ...."PPEs", "Eaton", "Bullingdon"'

No one has brought "Eaton" into this discussion apart from you. Is that a diversion tactic?

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Isitmebut · 10/10/2014 15:41

Ha ha ha ...."PPEs", "Eaton", "Bullingdon" you have a 'Westminster elite' MP folks, a nice shiney ex Conservative popular MP with his constituents, that with a Deputy Leader offered title, found Ukip religion - are you going to carry on with anti establishment shit as the best you've got, or talk politics?

Re Ukip and Farages interview this morning, and when asked doesn't Ukip's success mean there will certainly not be a 2017 EU referendum, pathetically blaming Cameron without a Commons majority (due to Ukip) for not legislating for a Referendum by now;

If Ukip (ensuring a Labour government in 2015) TAKES AWAY the right of ‘the people’ to have an EU Referendum and focuses on the negatives of immigration, knowing full well that unless Cameron can negotiate EU reforms on lowering immigration, by UK law as a member of the EU we have to adopt EU ‘openness’ to work in other countries – then Farage is setting the UK up for Ukip vote winning multicultural strife, unprecedented in this county, but is increasing in the Uk and throughout Europe.

What is a nationalistic NEW United Kingdom Independence Party with no credible domestic policies but creepily looking for 'change' they can't discuss - if NOT a British version of the French Front National????

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claig · 10/10/2014 15:15

Good points, WetAugust.

Miliband is using the US election guru, Axelrod. I wouldn't be surprised if a Tory PPE knows a chum who worked as a US election guru for the Republicans. Same old, same old. Spin and more spin.

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WetAugust · 10/10/2014 15:11

I didn't know about Joe the Plumber Claig. Now I do, I can just imagine some PPE that has a spell in the US casting around desperately for the our own Joe the Plumber and coming up with Charlie. It's so depressingly predictable.

I never ceases to maze me when people who don't know a lot about politics put themselves up as spokeman for this that or the other. But I suppose as you rise up Maslow's then recognition becomes important to you, hence appearances on WT spouting Tory crap. . Kinighthood anyone?

Charlie said on QT that a lot of these import plumbers were not actually plumbers at all until they came to Britain. I would have thought that would have raised concerns about their competence, about the qualifications regime, about fairness to the indigenous UK workforce etc etc. More ukippy sort of concerns that Tory ones.

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Isitmebut · 10/10/2014 14:28

"Be prepared to see the Pimlico Plonker plastered all over our BBC and our TV as the Establishment try everything they can to stop the Party of the People - UKIP."

I tried re-reading that with a German accent, and it works better, so vi not send around 'Hans and the boys' to sort him out?

Look I have no interest in your deflecting via Pimilico from what Ukip's betrayal to their core voters, putting Westminster power before a potential EU exit.

But with our education system in 2004 we had over 500,000 unemployed 16-24 year olds, over 700,000 in 2007 prior to the crash, and over 900,000 by 2010 - look at the attempts to change education to prepare kids better for work, during the recession and an economy with little business confidence, and how many apprenticeships the Coalition have achieved to try sort out that problem, as your new mate alluded to and now finding 'talent'.

So it is already happening, but Ukip wants to 'change' that, and you still complain.

So de swivel your eyes, un bunch your knickers, and trying looking at the real world, rather than your cultish one vare Ukip vil breed a new master race whilst the economy sorts itself out under Labour.

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claig · 10/10/2014 14:14

Wow, this is just staggering stuff from the Pimlico Plonker. I hope the BBC does keep inviting him on so that he can tell the British public exactly what he thinks of British workers and young unemployed people seeking work.

"Charlie Mullins, 54, is the founder of Pimlico Plumbers, a London firm with 200 staff — a third of them foreign. He says:

The amount of foreign applicants we’re getting now is incredible — I’d say more than a third. They’re very, very keen. They know if they work they can earn good money. They see a job with us as a golden opportunity — which it is if you’re prepared to work hard. We have Eastern Europeans, Australians, South Africans and New Zealanders — and, more recently, lots of Spanish plumbers looking for work.

I get British applicants who clearly come for an interview just so they can tick the box and fulfil the criteria for their Jobseeker’s Allowance.
Charlie Mullins of Pimlico Plumbers says foreign workers are 'very keen'

Charlie Mullins of Pimlico Plumbers says foreign workers are 'very keen'

They turn up late, dressed scruffily, with a couldn’t-care-less attitude. They sit there and you can just tell they’ve no interest whatsoever in the job.

In fact, they don’t even want the job. There’s no incentive for them because they can fall back on state hand-outs. The benefits system is destroying Britain and the British work ethic.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2521076/The-bosses-love-jobs-Brits-werent-LAZY.html

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