Elsewhere in the Middle East

[LouiseBrooks]

I defy anyone to watch this Iraqi MP without weeping.

Claig, you must be Ruskie with THAT sense of humour and bare faced misinformation, re Farage not having any ex Tory rich backers, would you like me to try list them for you?

ISIS may have rich backers, that pressure can be put upon, but also have other ways of funding themselves including bank robbery. I think I heard that in one major Iraqi town, they got access to $500 million of the central banks money - never mind looting every village, $157 million(?) proceeds of kidnapping and the Syrian oilfields SOMEONE is taking off their hands.

I am certainly not a Ruskie.

'Farage not having any ex Tory rich backers, would you like me to try list them for you?'

No thank you, that is not necessary.

'ISIS may have rich backers, that pressure can be put upon, but also have other ways of funding themselves including bank robbery. I think I heard that in one major Iraqi town, they got access to $500 million of the central banks money'

Yes, but that is only recent within the last month or two, before Isis had all its brand new Toyota 4x4s and weapons that it used in its advance from Syria across Iraq.

Some journalists have asked where Isis's funding comes from and the answer given is the bank robbery of the last few months, kidnapping and oil sales (who is buying their oil?), but not much about the rich Saudi and Qatari backers who started them off.

Maybe Toyota is 'supplying' them. lol

'Maybe Toyota is 'supplying' them'

No somebody has supplied them with identical Toyota trucks, but it has nothing to do with Toyota temselves.

Are you SURE you're not Russian, with an addition humour by-pass operation?

Absolutski not.

A good reply.

Anyhooo…..this is NOT funny, why has it taken so long to hit the media – these people need help now.

“Iraq conflict: UN warns of possible Amerli 'massacre'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28910674

“The UN has called for action to prevent what it says may be a possible massacre in the northern Iraqi town of Amerli.”

“Special representative Nickolay Mladenov says he is "seriously alarmed" by reports regarding the conditions in which the town's residents live.”

“The town, under siege by Islamic State for two months, has no electricity or drinking water, and is running out of food and medical supplies.”

“The majority of its residents are Turkmen Shia, seen as apostates by IS.”

Bliar is an important international figure.

Blair is a disgraced and discredited figure. The so-called "Middle East Peace Envoy" (which comic came up with that role for him?) is currently on holiday in Sicily (highly recommended by the way, I've been there several times) and isn't even pretending to be remotely interested in what is happening in the benighted region. Bearing in mind that I turn the tv off whenever his smug face appears, I could well be wrong but he doesn't even seem to have made a single comment in recent weeks about anything that is happening.

As for Assad, the only difference between him and ISIS is - as you pointed out - that he isn't a threat to us. They are psychopaths and so is he. He's just a tad smoother that's all.

Yes, this has been known for days but has received very little reporting.

Why? One would have to be a conspiracy theorist, of which I am not one, to explain why the media would not want to give this too much coverage as it concerns Isis and what should be done about them.

'Blair is a disgraced and discredited figure.'

He is to the public, but not to the people above him. It is worth listening to his speeches if you can stomach it because what he says gives an indication of the thinking of the comics who called him "Middle East Peace Envoy".

This is straight from the horse's mouth from many years ago.

"His [Assad's] position is untenable. There is no process of change that leaves him intact."

Claig ………. I think I’ve worked out why, and oh what a tangled web Iraq is.

The Turkman Shia are descended from the Ottoman Turks, and were not really accepted by the previous regime in Iraq under Saddam, or the Kurds for Turkey/Kurd land disputes and conflict, going on for years.

Here the west and/or Turkey may have to take a lead, as I suspect Turkman Shia have little priority from anyone else (under attack) in Iraq.

Re Blair and ‘inside knowledge’, he can get ‘played’ with the best of them in this Middle East power game, with more 'pieces' than a chess board.

Isitmebut, that is an interesting analysis that I never knew about. But Turkey could destroy Isis in a flash if it wanted to. The media that has not reported it much is our media, I don't know what the Turkish media have done, but I wouldn't be surprised if Turkish media has put it high up on the news agenda.

It is more likely to be to do with us and the then increasing pressure to respond to Isis rather than anything to do with the Turks.

Humanitarian aid drops etc are obviously not enough. Clearly Isis neeed to be stopped militarily as the Pope said. But will it happen? I don't know. At the moment there is still lots of talk about "containing" them rather than Sir Malcolm Rifkind's talk of "eliminating" them and talking with Assad in order to do it.

Parliament hasn't even been recalled, it is still holiday season.

The whole world is shamed by this Isis thing. Hundreds of thousands of people have been displaced from their homes, where their communities have lived for thousands of years.

The Yazidis are Kurds whose faith goes right back to Zoriastrianism. And we see some of them saying on TV that they can no longer live in Iraq, that they do not feel safe living there anymore and some say they want to leave and seek asylum elsewhere. This is a calamity for those people and the whole world needs to sort Isis out - this funded gang of mercenaries, volunteers and butchers.

But this is where the question arises, where did Isis come from and who backed them and will the international community actually "eliminate" them and let tens of thousands of people return to their homes where they can live in safety or will it just "contain" them, in which case they will still act as a destabilising force and many Iraqis will not feel safe to live there?

Claig …. Re your “But Turkey could destroy Isis in a flash if it wanted to.”

And “It is more likely to be to do with us and the then increasing pressure to respond to Isis rather than anything to do with the Turks.”

If it is so easy to ‘destroy ISIS in a flash’, either a portion of the 270,000 Iraqi army or Syrian troops with effect airpower, whose countries the 10,15 or 20,000 highly battle prepared ISIS forces that are straddling, would do so – for Turkey to intervene in Iraqi affairs without Iraq’s permission, especially with a significant amount of army boots on the ground, they would be seen as an army of foreign occupation.

As the UK and U.S. army have not been requested by the Iraqi, Kurd (or Syrian) administrations, we would also be seen as a foreign army of occupation that would stir up all those old nationalist emotions AGAIN – which in predominately Sunni regions, could drive more recruits to ISIS.

And as I’ve mentioned before, how does a western army ‘fight’ a Sunni ISIS army, across a huge expanse of land (especially if includes Syria), surrounded by Sunni villages, sympathisers and active supporters, especially if they mainly move about in 4x4’s WITHOUT black flags flying over them and wearing black in their uniforms.

So f-f-f-forget the Pope, forget recalling parliament a week or so early; FIRST of all the Iraqi’s and Kurds (and maybe Syria) have to REQUEST a lot more boots on the ground than needed for aid, logistic, intelligence and air support.

SECONDLY all the power that be have to finally decide that chasing ISIS to the Syrian border to regroup isn’t enough and that they need to both go into Syria, and block off any escape routes e.g. a Jordan, that Syria .

THIRDLY the western army chiefs have to tell their respective governments IF it can be done, HOW and with what kit they need to get it done, WHEN it can be done with a mission timetable - and how many allied CASUALTIES it may take. And all this while the SAS will be 'scouting', just in case.

Then, and only then, does a P.M. take those facts to a 625 member parliament - few of whom know anything more about this ‘stuff’ than the rest of us, but will blah, blah, outrage, blah, blah to the cameras - and ONCE they receive the facts, they will vote.

And god willing, the people of Syria may finally get some serious help from the west, albeit against ISIS, rather than Assad.

Have you not heard that the US is talking about bombing in Syria without asking Assad's permission? However, reading the article where it said that the US have been giving coordinates of Isis leaders to Syria so that they can bomb them, then it may be in secret that the US and Syria are in fact talking and making some agreements without publicising it and embarrassing politicians who have to be seen to maintain a consistent position.

But in the past, Turkey has moved into the Kurdish areas of Iraq and attacked Kurds without asking the Iraqi government if it minds. If Turkey felt like it, it would do it and the Iraqi army would not be able to stop them.

Assad has his hands full fighting the whole lot of them, not just Isis, so he has to deal with them one at a time. Eventually he will get round to Isis and if rich backers were no longer funding them, then Assad and Hezbollah would finish off the Isis London rapper DJs, the university degree applicants from Cardiff and the teenagers from Luton or wherever else they come from.

If we talk to Assad and if we try to seal the border between Syria and Iraq and stop any rich funders and backers helping to supply them, then ISIS will be over, the youtube videos will stop, the tweets will cease and the region will no longer be destabilised by this funded gang of mercenaries in their brand new issue military combat boots and shiny identical Toyota trucks.

"Asked whether Qatar, Turkey or Saudi Arabia – another alleged source of funding – were “fully on board”, Harf responded: ”Well, look, we’re talking to them every day about what more we can all do. We know there’s more that needs to be done. We know this is a long-term fight, and we know it’s a tough one. So we’re having those conversations.”

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/general-john-allen-obama-isis-james-foley-killing

"Determined to get rid of President Assad, the Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has kept Turkey’s 550-mile border with Syria open, giving the jihadists, including Isis, a safe haven over the last three years. The Turks are now saying Isis is no longer welcome, but Ankara has not moved seriously to close the border by deploying troops in large numbers.

A complete volte face by the US, Britain and their allies in their relations with the Assad government is unlikely because it would mean admitting that past support for the Sunni rebellion had contributed to the growth of the caliphate.

Mr Freeman says that he doubted that the liberal interventionists and neoconservatives who had pursued regime change in Syria were capable of reversing course. To do so would require them to admit that they bore considerable responsibility for legitimising pointless violence that has resulted in the deaths of 190,000 Syrians"

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/west-poised-to-join-forces-with-assad-in-face-of-islamic-state-9686666.html

Here's Pat Buchanan, a real American Conservative Republican, not a neocon, not a Blairite liberal interventionst, not a moderniser, not a progressive, just an old-fashioned common sense conservative, a species that is vanishing faster than the tide unfortunately.

He says teh War Party is escalating the military prowess and military capabilities f he funded gang of mercenaris known as Isis in order to reintervene in the region, but he says that Turkey and Assad etc could finish Isis off and that forces in the region are capable.

He doesn't mention the rich backers of Isis, but it would require a resolution to cut all secret support to Isis, and then Isis would begin to be destroyed, I think.

"King, McCain and Graham want Obama to play imperial president and launch a preemptive war that their own Congress has not authorized.

What kind of constitutionalists, what kind of conservatives are these?

Is Graham right that an “existential threat” is at hand? Is our very existence as a nation in peril? Graham says no force in the Mideast can stop ISIL without us. Is this true?

Turkey, a nation of 76 million, has the second-largest army in NATO, equipped with U.S. weapons, and an air force ISIL does not have.

If President Recep Tayyip Erdogan wanted to crush ISIS, he could seal his border to foreign fighters entering Syria and send the Turkish army to assist President Bashar Assad in annihilating ISIS in Syria

The jihadists of the Islamic State may be more motivated, but they are hugely outnumbered and outgunned in the region.

The Syrian government and army, Hezbollah in Lebanon, the Shia-dominated government of Iraq, a Shia Iran of 70 million, and the Kurds in Syria and Kurdistan are all anti-Islamic State and willing to fight.

All are potential allies in a coalition to contain or crush ISIS, as is Vladimir Putin’s Russia, if U.S. diplomacy were not frozen in the 1980s.

Only last August, McCain and Graham were attacking Obama for not enforcing his “red line” by bombing Syria’s army, the most successful anti-ISIL force in the field

The threat of the Islamic State should not be minimized. It would provide a breeding and training ground for terrorists to attack us and the West. But it should not be wildly exaggerated to plunge us into a new war.

For wherever ISIS has won ground, it has, through atrocities and beheadings, imposition of Sharia law, and ruthless repression, alienated almost everyone, including al-Qaida.

Should ISIS succeed in holding northern Syria and western Iraq, who will recognize this caliphate? Who will trade with it? [any of the media asked about who is buying the Isis oil? Assad apparently, we have been told] How will it hold the allegiance of peoples upon whom it is even now imposing terrorist rule?

The Sunni of Iraq are already chaffing against ISIS rule. How long will Turks, Syrians, Iraqis, Kurds and Iranians tolerate a Talibanized Islamic State right next door? And should ISIS attack the United States, we have more than sufficient means to retaliate, without sending in American troops.

Let Middle Easterners take the lead in fighting this newest Middle East war."

buchanan.org/blog/isis-existential-threat-6867

I think Isis should be eliminated and quickly by a concerted effort by all of the countries in the region and us and Russia and Assad in unison, because they are making life hell for the people in Iraq and because they spread terrorism. All funders of Isis should be stopped and countries who have allowed them safe havens to resupply etc in the regime change plan to topple Assad should change their policies and put an end to the terrorist and mercenaries of the funded Isis gang.

Claig …. So many more quotes saying the same thing, WE KNOW ISIS has to be stopped, but even WHEN the west decides that the Iraqi’s and Kurds containing ISIS is not enough and their combined army 3 x the size of ours can’t push them back – mobilizing one western army, never mind a concerted effort of several (that needs the U.S. army’s huge range of equipment, so THEIR commitment) it is NOT a 24-hour jobbie to get it all down there.

Think how long it took to get the allied coalition together and get all that ‘stuff’ (painted green, not beige lol) down their for the Iraq war (Operation Desert Shield then Operation Desert Storm), that went on to Afghanistan, and then came back.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War#France

And I repeat, at the moment ISIS appears to be contained from further advances.

So although this is far smaller conflict, they have to be prepared for anything, including a fast moving conflict or house-to-house fighting of well dug in ISIS troops, surrounded by mines, road side bombs, and similar in every doorway.

P.S. the Turkman Shia in Iraq are Iraqi citizens, not Turkish, which is fundamental to the Turk’s obligation to help.

'it is NOT a 24-hour jobbie to get it all down there.'

Well if the leaders interrupted their golf games, rides on golf carts and masterng ther swing and surfing the waves and queuing up at the ice cream van for Mr Whippy's 99p lemon ice cream delight with raspberry sauce and added chocolate flake, then maybe we could help turn around the suffering of tens of thousands of people trapped by a funded gang of mercenaries called Isis.

I understand that everyone is entitled to a break (how many breaks are necessary I am more unsure about), but when are people going to give the suffering people of Iraq a break and eliminate this gang of funded volunteers and mercenaries which include London rapper DJs, Chechen terrorists and Toyota truck driving Jihadis from all over the West?

'And I repeat, at the moment ISIS appears to be contained from further advances.'

That may be what our media is saying during holiday season while Parliament has not been recalled, but there ae 17000 - 20000 Turkmen Shia trapped by a funded gang of Jihadis called Isis, and there are children who are only eating once every 2 or 3 days.

As a number of our most respected newspaper headlines recently rightly said.

"Isis, what Crisis?"

Stuart Ramsay of Sky News, who is outside Amerli now and whom I think is one of our best and most truthful TV journalists, with his brilliant, honest, non-spin controlled reporting over Ukraine and the MH-17 shoot down, has just said that

"I think we're at this stage where actually not a lot is really happening. IS are able to supply themselves from Syria, they are able to consolidate their positions in the areas that they have taken control of ... it is actually getting if you like as the days and weeks pass worse ... the international community's assistance has been really quite small and IS are getting stronger everyday"

Meanwhile the surf's up, Parliament's shut down and we are told that Isis have been "contained".

Claig ….. is there any danger of you not just regurgitating the quiet ‘silly season’ press, who pathetically seems to think that if a P.M. or President is on holiday, then everything military/logistically STOPS DEAD, until they return?

That 625 MP’s bumping into each other like busy bees in Westminster Halls creating loads of noise grandstanding to the media, actually HELPS anything?

THINK ABOUT OUR troops, that when we (erroneously) invaded Iraq, BECAUSE of the detailed plan/logistics/Special Forces intelligence, OUR troops casualties were extraordinarily limited.

THINK ABOUT that when OUR troops went into Afghanistan, when the gung-ho Labour Defence Secretary thought there was a chance ‘we wouldn’t fire a shot’ how many CASUALTIES we had as OUR TROOPS, known embarrassingly to other forces as ‘the borrowers’, didn’t have enough bullet proof vests, vehicles that could resist road side bombs, or helicopters that could limit road journeys and airlift the injured to hospital quicker.

Yet we had ££££billions to spend on two aircraft carriers, too large for our actual needs, being built in or next to Gordon Brown’s constituency up in Scotland.

Maybe money NOW is a logistics problem, as with an approx annual Defence Spend of £34 bil, when the Coalition came in, the armed forces that had been at perpetual warfare since Blair/Brown came in, had a defence ‘black hole’ of around £36 billion on top of their budget, not budgeted for - with an annual National Budget Deficit of £157 billion – who then wanted more CUTS from social services, rather than increase our army????

So the decision was made to cut the army numbers from 102,000 to 82,000 but MAKE SURE they are properly equipped to both protect themselves and do a job – but I’m guessing there is not a lot of fat/spare warfare capacity lying around.

Maybe in the next parliament with a £100 billion national annual budget DEFICIT, the government will decide the world is too dangerous and spend more than £33-4 billion a year on defence, or be complete prats and re nationalise our railways with extra debt, I dunno.

In conclusion; do not assume NOTHING is being done at international, national, or by Special Forces on the ground in Iraq/Syria – so that when the west DID attack, in the first week they inflict massive damages on an enemy without time to hide, or take down their black flags and mingle with the friendly Sunni populations.

After all if you want to 'destroy' an enemy, you don't send a postcard to say you're coming.

It is stupid for the media to expect all plans to be available to them, to both warn the enemy and put OUR troops lives (who as an aspiring humourless Russian) you seem to forget, in additional danger.

'is there any danger of you not just regurgitating the quiet ‘silly season’ press'

I regurgitated the Daily Mail.

"That 625 MP’s bumping into each other like busy bees in Westminster Halls creating loads of noise grandstanding to the media, actually HELPS anything?"

Now can you understand the public's desire for some UKIP MPs in there?

'After all if you want to 'destroy' an enemy, you don't send a postcard to say you're coming.'

Do we want to 'destroy' the Jihadis or do we want to 'contain' them?

Do we want to eliminate Isis and speak with Assad as Sir Michael Rifkind now says and who was once a hawk who argued for us to bomb Syria while Farage said no?

Will the rich funders who fund the Jihadis to effect regime change in Syria be stopped? Will Tony Blair, Middle East Peace Convoy, be proved wrong and will Assad survive the "process of change" that Blair's bosses told Blair about when he said

"His position is untenable. There is no process of change that leaves him intact"

Time will tell.

'Middle East Peace Convoy'

Sorry, Envoy not Convoy. He hasn't put that much weight on.

In one of Patrick Cockburn's brilliant Independent articles on Isis, Syria etc, he quotes a man who knows a lot about it - Mr Freeman, former US ambassador to Saudi Arabia

"Mr Freeman says that he doubted that the liberal interventionists and neoconservatives who had pursued regime change in Syria were capable of reversing course. To do so would require them to admit that they bore considerable responsibility for legitimising pointless violence that has resulted in the deaths of 190,000 Syrians"

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/west-poised-to-join-forces-with-assad-in-face-of-islamic-state-9686666.html