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Elsewhere in the Middle East

229 replies

LouiseBrooks · 06/08/2014 22:17

I defy anyone to watch this Iraqi MP without weeping.

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alAswad · 09/08/2014 16:53

thecat, would you mind elaborating a bit on the Kurdish situation? It's not something I know a lot about, and I'd like to find out more.

DownByTheRiverside · 09/08/2014 17:48

Saddam Hussain waged war against many minorities in Iraq, including the Kurds. In the late 80s, Iraqui forces used poison gas to kill thousands of Kurds in one town. There were some truly horrific photos that his the press at the time, they stayed with me.

Here's what wikki has to say:

Al-Anfal Campaign: In 1988, the Hussein regime began a campaign of extermination against the Kurdish people living in Northern Iraq. This is known as the Anfal campaign.
The campaign was mostly directed at Shiite Kurds (Faili Kurds) who sided with Iranians during the Iraq-Iran War. The attacks resulted in the death of at least 50,000 (some reports estimate as many as 182,000) people, many of them women and children.
A team of Human Rights Watch investigators determined, that the attacks on the Kurdish people were characterized by gross violations of human rights, including mass executions and disappearances of many tens of thousands of noncombatants, widespread use of chemical weapons including Sarin, mustard gas and nerve agents that killed thousands, the arbitrary imprisoning of tens of thousands of women, children, and elderly people for months in conditions of extreme deprivation, forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of villagers after the demolition of their homes, and the wholesale destruction of nearly two thousand villages along with their schools, mosques, farms and power stations.

In April 1991, after Saddam lost control of Kuwait in the Persian Gulf War, he cracked down ruthlessly against several uprisings in the Kurdish north and the Shia south. His forces committed full-scale massacres and other gross human rights violations against both groups similar to the violations mentioned before. Estimates of deaths during that time range from 20,000 to 100,000 for Kurds, and 60,000 to 130,000 for Shi'ites.

LouiseBrooks · 09/08/2014 18:01

The conspiracy theories about ISIS range from vaguely reasonable (ie Iran or Saudi backed) to the laughable (their leader El Baghdadi is really a Jewish actor called Simon Elliot.) One things for sure, if even Al Queda call them extreme then they must be horrific.

It makes me more grateful than ever to be born where I was.

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claig · 09/08/2014 20:21

LouiseBrooks, not Iran backed. Isis are anti Iran and Shia

Wannabestepfordwife · 10/08/2014 09:22

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/crisis-in-the-middle-east-the-end-of-a-country-and-the-start-of-a-new-dark-age-9659379.html a really good article about the rise of ISIS

alemci · 10/08/2014 16:26

it is horrendous, must be terrifying. like something out of the middle ages.

alAswad · 11/08/2014 18:06

Thanks DownBy, that's really informative (I want to say 'interesting' but I'm not sure that's the right word...) There's so much history in the region that I don't feel I have enough of an awareness of, it's hard to know where to start sometimes.

I was expecting this thread to have picked up a bit after the US airstrikes began in Iraq, but I'm still not sure how many people are fully aware of the situation - I mentioned on another thread that I'd met a group of young political student types who hadn't heard of ISIS at all, and whose only opinion on the situation was 'apparently the US wants to bomb Iraq again, how typical' Hmm

JohnFarleysRuskin · 11/08/2014 18:11

The situation is horrendous, I am glad the west is sending aid. sending arms to the Kurds seems frightening but there doesn't seem much alternative. :(

halfdrunkcoffee · 11/08/2014 18:29

I've been reading this thread with interest to learn more and stay informed about the wider Middle East. ISIS is incredibly frightening.

halfdrunkcoffee · 12/08/2014 15:16

S

halfdrunkcoffee · 12/08/2014 15:19

Sorry!
Some interesting articles in the Huffington Post today:

Isis in numbers

And this one

alAswad · 12/08/2014 18:16

This looks like it might have some interesting background too - I haven't read it all yet though.

Nicaboo · 13/08/2014 14:26

Hey ladies,

I am so desperately sad about the Iraqi situation and the persecution of the people out there. Please, please, sign this petition if you can and share it with your Facebook friends and colleagues to try and mobilize more support from the Government. Thanks xx
submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/67979

alAswad · 13/08/2014 15:27

A friend just sent me this, some of the information is a little out of date I think but the footage is very moving.

I've signed the petition - whether it'll do any good I don't know, but the more awareness around the situation the better.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 14/08/2014 08:50

I signed. I wasn't entirely comfortable with the wording somehow.

On the BBC, it said mountain rescue unlikely, but on the radio, they said mountain rescue to go ahead. I wonder what will happen...

Softlysoftlycatchymonkey · 14/08/2014 11:28

Signed.

It's beyond describable what is happening. I've just watched a news clip talking of children bring beheaded. I'm sick to my stomach. They basically have to convert or be killed and even if they pay the fine the woman and girls are still taken to be IS wifes.

Why why why is this being allowed to happen? I'm hi pinging and praying that the powers that be are trying to deal with behind closed doors or maybe it's wishful thinking.

What I'm scared about is what if these British lads that have gone over to join IS come back home and try to start an uprising here? Are they DVDs allowed back ? I read on another thread 'this isn't a religion it's a revolution' - I agree. Absolutely haunted by the clip I watched.

Softlysoftlycatchymonkey · 14/08/2014 11:29

*are they allowed back

alAswad · 14/08/2014 17:17

JohnFarleys I did think it was a bit vague/idealistic in terms of action when I first read it (safe passage to where?), but looking at it again the parts about aid and working with people on the ground are quite clear. Is it the mention of Christians specifically that you have an issue with? (I don't know how to phrase that last question without it sounding aggressive, but it's not meant to be!)

Softly there was a picture that was headline news in Australia of an Australian man who'd gone to fight for them getting his young son, apparently aged 7, to hold up the severed head of a soldier Hmm According to the Mirror about 250 IS fighters have come back to Britain already and MI5 are tracking them - they're (obvously) not saying anything yet about how much information they have, though.

halfdrunkcoffee · 15/08/2014 21:28

The Economist has an article on IS.

LouiseBrooks · 16/08/2014 20:33

ITN News at Ten coverage this week has been really good

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Softlysoftlycatchymonkey · 16/08/2014 22:44

alAswad Shock would it really be in the paper if they were?

They shouldnt let them back in. They can't all be watched at the same time. I'm worried.

LouiseBrooks · 16/08/2014 23:37

Did anyone see that bloke on the news last night saying he wanted to join them? I can't remember which station it was that interviewed him (he was late 20s or so). Personally I'd say let him go but he has to give up his British passport and can't come back ever. I think we should all be worried. They are a danger to everyone, of all religions or none, who don't share their beliefs.

Watching the news again tonight, it's seeing the children that upsets me mainly of course but also the elderly - I look and think "what if that was my mum"? (sadly gone many years ago). I hope to God someone would help her in similar circumstances.

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Yruapita · 19/08/2014 16:12

I find it quite shocking and frankly do not understand why anyone from the UK would want to join ISIS. I have no words to describe their treatment of the Yazidis. I wish humanity would prevail and people would just stop and think about what the hell it is that they are doing.