I despair at Israel sometimes

[AndHarry]

Well, often really. I have family out there who have a bomb shelter in their house and have had to evacuate for weeks at a time so I have great sympathy for ordinary Israelis trying to go about their lives. What happened to 3 sch

spin and twisting can only work for so many decades and only cover so many thousands of murders imo.

it's more than wearing thin.

if by 'hate' you mean that i hate oppression regimes and mass murder and genocide then yes, i'll take that on the chin. i do.

Israel wants to live in peace does it? Does killing the disabled palestinians give it peace? Does calling Palestinian babies 'little snakes' give it peace? Does killing Palestinian babies give it peace? Does killing Palestinian mothers give it peace?

Or does building settlements aggressively during peace talks make it look like its seeking peace?

Does approving 14,000 settlements during peace talks show Israel as peace seeking?

Does destroying 500 Palestinian homes/structures show Israel as peace loving?

Does KILLING 60 Palestinians during peace talks spell peace to you?

Does injuring 1,100 palestinians during peace talks seem peaceful to you?

Does detaining nearly 4000 palestinians during peace talks seem peaceful to you?

and then you say you want peace!

It's pathetic and disgusting. The World is waking up to it.

Honey badger.
The link you provided was a website of a Jewish extremist faction group called the neturei karta. They are not a reputable source.

To all the posters who don't support Israel's right to exist - what are your practical suggestions for the future? Would you force several million people to emigrate en masse and make the whole area exclusively Palestinian? Are you in favour of a one-state solution encompassing Israel, Gaza and the West Bank that would be home to both Israelis and Palestinians? Or a two-state solution with the living conditions of a normal country rather than a refugee camp? We can rehash the history endlessly (and I am not sure all posters are as knowledgeable about it as they could be) and we can say with the benefit of hindsight what we think should have happened at various points in the past, but right now what do you propose to bring about peace?

'Keeping civilians in these areas...' fukki there is nowhere for these civilians to go. They are crammed in like animals in a tiny strip of land of 25 miles. Israel have barricaded them in and bombed them. And then complained and slaughtered when they have shown resistance.

and fukki if you're right about those civilians you're the ones who have locked them in there with no means to escape. are they supposed to go against their leaders and those with power in their refugee camp? having been locked in a 25m strip of land are they supposed to somehow find a safe corner and live autonomously? i'm baffled by what kind of autonomy and 'choice' you think refugees in a cage have.

Fukki ffs there are no shelters and safe rooms in a refugee camp. Please go educate yourself about the situation. I cannot reason with you any longer.

no it was a link to a site run by rabbis from all over the world who have collected the historic documents that i'm referring to but having gone down the censorship route it's 'disappeared'. just rewrite history, it's worked so far.

I'm on my phone and can't look it up for accuracy. But leaflets were dropped by the IAF and phone calls were made advising residents to move from the south of gaza to the north. (Or north to south, as I said, I'm on my phone and can't check)

I agree coffee. I'd love to see a workable solution for the future.
I'm still hoping the 2 state solution will come to fruition.

i think several of us have said that israel would need to admit to war crimes and tribunals and cease all continuing war crimes and crimes against humanity as a precursor to any meaningful peace talks. once that was done they could sit at a table and find a way forward.

unfortunately there will be no real way forward until reparations are made. not 'concessions' but reparations and acknolwedgement of criminal activity.

One mistake in all my posts. You are correct, there aren't shelters.

So as a pp said, what is your proposed workable solution to all of this?

So if as part of your plan, Israel no longer controlled the borders, what do you think would happen? Peace? Neighbours living side by side?
I don't think so.

'one mistake' - kind of a big one though eh???? where would you have them run to?

move north or south in a 25mile strip of land with carnage everywhere within 60 seconds - can you hear yourself? how long do you think it would take you to run upstairs, grab a sleeping baby from it's bed, call out to your children spread around the house and get them out of the front door let alone to a mythical 'place of safety'?

i don't know fukki - would you volunteer to have a fence put round you and have soldiers patrolling it to keep you in?

Half drunk - I always hoped for a one state solution where palestinians had freedom of movement and equality. But over the years Israel has eroded all trust and cannot be trusted anymore to not oppress and degrade palestinian lives. Of course the Jews in Israel should not be made to leave but they should hold their government accountable for atrocities committed in their name. If the ordinary Israelis can reach out to Palestinians and campaign for equality then this would be a step on the road to a 2 state solution. This will only work if palestinians are given the right to return and treated equally.

HAVE A HEART!!! step back from the conditioning for even 60 seconds (an eon apparently) and feel for that woman trying to clear out her house because a bomb is coming.

There was a few days warning. And UNWRA opened schools etc

War is dirty and civilians get caught up. But if there were no rockets from Hamas this would never have happened.
If there wasn't a constant threat of extremist violence then Israel would be able to concede much of what the Pals want. A few years ago Olmert agreed to almost everything and it was still turned down. Israel is an incredible country, a tiny little place which is run on democracy and freedom. If there was no violence the Pals could and would be a part of that.

Fukki - what would happen if 'Israel no longer controlled borders' well that's pretty much what has led to the status quo of master slave mentality.

It is exactly that control which Israel has no right to. Once again I reiterate : these are not israels borders yo control.

The American slave owners said the same. Oh if only those pesky black slaves would stop fighting us and trying to free themselves we wouldn't have to keep lynching them. They should be lucky we let them live on our land and allow them to breathe our air.

I don't have a heart?? I cry for these people. I know more about the quality of life and treatment of people in gaza than most. And I still believe what I believe. Call me conditioned if it makes you feel better. But the beliefs that I have have evolved from first hand accounts, first hand studying and real understanding of the situations.
However, I respect that your opinions can have evolved the same way. And while I don't agree with most of what you say I respect your right to your opinions.

For some years as a teen I too was conditioned. I'm ashamed to say it. But now I'm. Proud that often it is the voice of prominent and ordinary Jews which shouts the loudest in support of palestine.

halfdrunkcoffeeThe Jewish people in Israel should not be forced to leave. One state or two - i am not bothered - as long as the Palestinians are happy with the solution, get their right to return and have their property and rights fully restored. I also want to see the perpetrators of crimes against humanity tried in International court.