I despair at Israel sometimes

[AndHarry]

Well, often really. I have family out there who have a bomb shelter in their house and have had to evacuate for weeks at a time so I have great sympathy for ordinary Israelis trying to go about their lives. What happened to 3 sch

I just looked at that link and I agree the comments underneath are awful and horribly racist, but the clip is equally racist isn't it? with groups of settlers laughing about invading Beirut and killing loads of Arabs. I suppose racism can either beget more racism or it can trigger change. The racism in the Knesset from Ayelet Shaken, calling all Palestinian babies 'snakes' who should burn in hell is no more or less racist than Hamas calling for death to the Jews. Face the truth.

Tragic really.

It's not really fair to accuse someone of racism due to other people's comments.
Here is an excellent piece about the current situation:
www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.604653

The whole thing is tragic.

But linking to an extremist page is like linking to the Westboro Baptist Church's views, or the BNP's views etc.

Hardly going to be balanced is it?

I wish I had not seen those horrible comments and hope they are not reflective of anyone's views here.

Backinthering, if I was linking to a FB page to price a point on a public forum I would certainly be checking the comments first. Disgusting.

*prove, not price

The clip is awful, to hear those words coming from children... Do those of you who support Israel not feel sickened by these young children saying they want to kill Arabs?? That is acceptable to you?

Why is it shameful for HoneyBadger to post that video? The comments on the page may well be anti-Semitic but the video itself is very revealing.

I think we should see these things, the level of brainwashing that goes on. The lives of Palestinians are systematically dehumanised and then you wonder why there is so much hatred towards Israel (I'm just waiting for someone else to trot out the age old line that those of us who do not support Israel must hate all Jews).

The views of the children in the video is not reflective of how the vast vast majority of Israelis feel. They are extremists in the same way the views expressed underneath it are, and to link to the FB page is foul.

Just to return to topic, israel has turned off the water supply to Gaza for the fifth day running, and has stopped the Red Cross getting in to Gaza to give water and food to orphan children sat by the corpses of their mothers. This was reported by C4 yesterday.

Hundreds more protests across the world.

What I don't understand is that yes Israel is certainly winning in terms of body count, but the damage it's doing to its reputation is staggering. Does it really believe that worldwide public condemnation will not affect it at all and that it is beyond reproach?

But I think that extremism is becoming more normalised in Israeli rhetoric, more acceptable- otherwise how on earth is it conceivable that this woman, Ayelet Shaked, could be actually allowed to remain in post in the Knesset? it's unbelievable to me. . There is no difference between what she says and what Hamas say. And the latter is described as a terrorist group.

There are also the absolute opposite views expressed in the Knesset, condemning Israel. By a female MK no less . Israel has freedom of speech, which is why this can happen. There are extremists on all sides.

I resent you speaking for all Israelis, suggesting these views are becoming normalised.

any true jew will know that murder is wrong

Of course murder is wrong in any religion, including Islam, as well as for atheists and agnostics.

many jewish leaders see the very notion of the israeli state in the way it has been taken as blasphemy and directly going against G_d. this is nothing to do with judaism.

Some ultra-Orthodox Jews (ironically some of whom live in Israel) are anti-Zionist as they believe the Messiah has not returned, but I don't know if they're taken seriously in political discussions. Which leaders do you mean - political ones or rabbis? I agree there are a great many well-known Jewish critics of Israel.

also very many jews are aware of the xionist complicity in many deaths during the holocaust via blocking any deal to repatriate jews that did not give them palestine. likewise the xionist leaders were writing about how the holocaust was wonderful as it would get them palestine and stating that millions of jewish lives in europe were worth less than one tree in palestine.

Can you provide some links or references? (and try and spell Zionism correctly?)

please don't give us the business about how israel is protecting it's citizens - israel is built on blood sacrifices of both jewish and palestinian people.

A huge amount of blood has undoubtedly been spilled over the past century at least, but this argument doesn't really make sense to me. Surely every country wants to protect its citizens? Israel seems to choose some dubious ways of protecting them, admittedly.

As for the Facebook video - the comments as KareninsGirl said are disgusting although some of the replies to that particular commenter are not. Mostly I just think it's depressing that children are thinking about how many people they will kill. They aren't questioning the need to have all these weapons in the first place (I don't imagine that Palestinian children grow up without some kind of weapon-viewing experience either). I think there are a few initiatives in which Jewish and Arab children can meet each other although I expect the kind of parents whose children would take part would be more open-minded anyway.

i provided links further up but you clearly chose to ignore them

i had not read the comments - i linked the video - halas! i did not link what others had said about a primary source resource but the resource.

love that the response is ooh did you see what other people said rather than any engagement that these are small children, and no not some teeny minority - this is the culture of israel and the attitudes i've seen in israel personally - but to respond instead to people's responses.

much like the absolute refusal from said posters to condemn the killing of women and children in gaza. ignore the reality and find trimmings to keep detracting to.

sweet little kids being programmed from the breast to want to murder 'arabs' and to feel gleeful and proud of imagining it. a child saying ah no worries we'll be back in lebanon by the time i grow up and that's where iwant to go and kill people.

so the government is a small extreme, the people gathered on a hill cheering the murders are extreme, the endless videos of israelis saying they think they should just bomb gaza flat to earth are again just extremists, the ELECTED politician calling all palestinian mothers and childrens snakes who should die is just extreme.

tell me where are the rational moderate israelis then given all these videos, politicians etc are not the norm?

i did not read the comments, i've no desire to read comments, the video speaks for itself. it was linked by someone, i watched it and linked it here. how about commenting on the video itself instead of finding another opportunity to call me disgusting and to project your racism onto me?

Israel is in control. It's a complete myth that palestine have any say in what's happening. They can only ever resist. Israel only ever attack.

There are many Jews within Israel who deplore the pitiful actions of Israel. There is no freedom.of speech there. I have relatives who feel afraid to speak up against bibi. For me this photo hit home how Israel is killing innocent people who are having to sit tight waiting to be slaughtered.

Israel is in control. It's a complete myth that palestine have any say in what's happening. They can only ever resist. Israel only ever attack.

There are many Jews within Israel who deplore the pitiful actions of Israel. There is no freedom.of speech there. I have relatives who feel afraid to speak up against bibi. For me this photo hit home how Israel is killing innocent people who are having to sit tight waiting to be slaughtered.

I did not call YOU disgusting. I called the FB page disgusting and it is.

Yes it is an extremist minority but if you wish to continue believing that all Israeli children are 'programmed from the breast' then I feel sorry for you as you are closed minded.

This is not a reasoned discussion, it is a thread in which some quite nasty lies are being bandied around as truth.

Someone up thread questioned whether the so called moderate Israelis were reacting. Well they are. Eran Efrati a Jewish activist has today reported that him and a group of friends have been told that fascist Jews supported by the IDF are planning on attacking palestinians in Jerusalem. They have gone there to prevent the violence despite knowing they will probably be arrested.

Taken from CNN:

Ahmed, a resident of northern Gaza, loaded his family into a taxi Sunday to take them to somewhat safer ground in Gaza City.
"I don't answer to them," Ahmed said of Hamas' request. "I do what's best for us."
As they were getting into the car, explosions erupted nearby, prompting cries of fear from the terrified children.
It's the third time in the last five years that the family has had to flee their home.

Others stayed, because they felt they had no other choice.
"They will not vacate. ... Where do we go?" asked Ramez Al-Madhoun, who lives in a building with 20 people in the northern Gaza neighborhood of Beit Lahya. He said his building is home to seven adults, the rest children.

--

The report presents some reasons why some Palestinians dont leave their homes - it indicates the terror of their children fleeing their home. These are traumatised prisoners.

I had a debate about this yesterday with a friend who has family in Israel- she was maintaining that the knock on the roof was a humanitarian act (!). When I argued that many people can't get out in time she said 'well that's their problem if they don't heed the warning. They're only small houses.'
I was pretty stunned but I suppose from this thread I should have expected it. I think many people don't see the Palestinians/ Arabs as real people like us, people we have humanity in common with. A total empathy fail.

I didn't like the comments on the fb page either but I don't see a problem with the video linked

Thehoneybadger- I've been through the whole thread and I can't find any links to what I was asking you to link about, unless it's in one of the messages that were deleted by MNHQ.

i hadn't realised i'd had posts deleted - i certainly made no personal attacks and didn't think mnhq were into censoring.

if you google jews against israel/zionism plenty comes up. i think that particular article was from www.truetorahjews.org/zionism here somewhere. they also have a lot of historical documents on there.

that would be weird if i was censored for repeating what jewish leaders have written about zionism

clears up that this is nothing to do with religion and all about a politically powerful imperialist regime.

So, a ceasefire has been agreed yet Hamas are still firing rockets into Israel.
Israelis only get a 15 second warning to run to the bomb shelters by the way.