I despair at Israel sometimes

[AndHarry]

Well, often really. I have family out there who have a bomb shelter in their house and have had to evacuate for weeks at a time so I have great sympathy for ordinary Israelis trying to go about their lives. What happened to 3 sch

No but seems cleanmean sees Hamas totally as an innocent, the victim. She only condemns the actions of Israel - that says quite a lot to me.

Unless someone is directly involved with being one of those nationalities involved or has close family there involved then I don't understand why you can't see fault on both sides.

The fact that both sides are in a place where they think the best answer is to vote in Hamas and Bibi to represent them is very depressing.

no, it really doesn't seem that way. she CONDEMNED their actions and asked you if you condemn the israeli state's actions yet you seem to not want to answer.

you know people can read right? and see? and access media and photos and documents and read all about history and see the death toll figures and and and and....

you get that the world is actually watching and seeing?

Bam please read my posts.

I condemn Hamas when they are at fault but the atrocities this week have only been committed by Israel, in terms of murder. I am neither israeli nor palestinian. Israel deserves the world's condemnation this week.

The 3 boys kidnapping was the excuse Israel needed. It never let the palestinians live in peace ever. When I see settlements building shrugged off and comments like 'take it to the UN', it makes me want to rage at the inhumanity of Israel.

Israel loves a bit of war. It has never let Palestinians live, so why does it expect them not to resist.

yes it would almost be a really handy false flag wouldn't it? it is strange no one has claimed responsibility

"Bam I outright condemn the deaths of the 3 teens any anyone celebrating it. The loss of any life is distressing. But I repeat, I will condemn Hamas when they take the lives of innocents and I condemn their firing of rockets into Israel. Now will you think of condemning Israel's murders committed in the full glare of the world this past week?"

Does it not matter that the intent of Hamas would be to take as many innocent Israeli lives as it could, they try as hard as they can. You sound as though you are disappointed.

You really can't read can you? Oh dear. To suggest I am disappointed that there are no civilian deaths in Israel is beyond disgusting. I have family in Israel. Not every jew is a zionist supporter. There are many many Jews worldwide who despise the actions of Israel.

The only reason Israelis haven't died in their hundreds is because they invested heavily in iron dome anti missile technology.

Suggesting the three boys' kidnap and mirder is preposterous. I refuse to even get into a discussion about that as it is conspiracist nonsense.

Protective Edge has halos ed because Hamas have been indiscriminately firing rickets from Gaza into Israel fur almost a year without Israel responding...but there really is only so much a nation can take. Isn't it strange how Hamas' actions never got mentioned in the news, yet when Israel responds after a year of enduring rocket fire, suddenly it's Israel this and Israel that and false flag conspiracies.

How many have been murdered in Syria? 160,000 I believe. Yet it is Israel who are finally pushed to respond to a TERRORIST ORGANISATION that gets the world's condemnation!

And yet you are still not condemning Israeli mass killing, are you Bam?

KareninsGirl - many people view the Israeli Govt/IDF as terrorist organisation , so it's all about perspective. And your point about Syria - what is it exactly? are you saying there has been no international condemnation of Assad? really? do you not have access to media sources? there has been nothing but condemnation for Assad for about 3 years on every news outlet I can think of. Stop deflecting.

bam really cannot do it.

the kool aid is mighty strong.

i think the magic of putting the word terrorist in capital letters and expecting it to be a carte blanche for all and any human rights atrocities ran out a good ten years ago btw.

Yes, you did say you condemn the firing of rockets into Israel - I missed that.

I just hope that there are still enough ordinary Palestinians and Israelis who when it comes down still want their children to lead a normal and secure lives - even if it means "losing something " or having to compromise.

I would like to see every last settlement bulldozed which might be start.

I think you will find that the uk and USA amongst others recognise Hamas as terrorists. Who exactly recognises the IDF as terrorists? Are you saying that Israel should just sit back after a year of rocket fire from Hamas and not take action? Hamas tells the Palestinians to ignore Israeli warnings and stay in buildings which are harbouring weapons or terrorists...that's called using human shields. And they also use hospitals and schools to hide their weapons to cause maximum international outrage when Israel finally takes action - even though the IDF do give 3 warnings before a strike.

I'm not saying the Israeli response is perfect but I don't know what you would do if al Qaida were bombing the uk.

Sadly, Hamas fires rickets and hides weapons in civilian areas which contravenes international law. As horrible and lamentable as the deaths have been on the Palestinian side, I blame Hamas more for that.

Hamas needs to stop firing rockets and then Israel will stop defending its citizens.

Israel is not defending. It is murdering. Even the oft fed excuses of self defence, terrorism, human shields cannot assist them any more.

Bam - interesting that your tone towards me changed when I told you I had family in Israel. So you are only antagonistic and vicious towards non Jews?

Karen - to blame Hamas for the deaths this week is vile. Deep down you know that. There is only Israel to blame. Only Israel.

Ohhh yes.KG, ...the old 'international law' chestnut. Would that be the same 'international law' which has declared the building of the 'settlements' as illegal?

There are many who regard the Israeli govt as terrorists. I'm still sticking with my earlier point which is that I see the sustained theft of land, farms and livelihoods as an act of aggression and confrontation. Don't you?

I'm glad, Bam, that you at least concede the settlements are evil and should be bulldozed.

Come on guys, we can have a better discussion than this. Confrontations like this are why people are dying and why this has rumbled on for so many decades. No one here on MN has the power to stop the conflict right now. What we can do is put our heads together to find workable solutions for preparing for peace so that we can use whatever small influence we have with people on the ground.

I agree Andharry whuch is why up thread I mentioned the positive initiatives such as the joint muslim Jewish fast and the collaboration of Jews and Muslims. This is the only way forward. If every Muslim spoke up against Hamas atrocities (of which there are very few) and every jew condemned the killing of innocent palestinians we could affect change. Or make a start.

Muslims and Jews lived peacefully for centuries until the European persecutors of Jews placed them on stolen land and funded their illegal settlements and massacres.

I am no supporter of hamas, far from it, but resistance to occupation is recognised in international law. Occupation is not.

no, the occupation, theft and brutality of israel are the cause. let's not pretend this is two people having a scuffle over nothing.

herding a people into a 25mile strip of land and throwing bombs at them with big brothers behind you that prevent anyone coming to your aid is what causes these problems.

incidentally jews and muslims can do nothing about this because it's nothing to do with judaism or islam much as the northern island issue wasn't about religion only that the religion happened to line up on different sides of the occupation and imperialism divide and helped to trivialise and make 'personal' and squabble like the conflict for the outside eye.

if the whole of israel was shunted into a 25mile strip of land, patrolled by palestinian troops, wasn't allowed to trade or cross borders and was having bombs thrown in at them i wonder what the israelis would see as defensible action of resistance? given even in the comfier role they're happy to slaughter women and children what would they do if the balance of power was the other way around?

International law is meaningless. Did International law prevent the holocaust? No. Would international law prevent Hamas from wiping Israel off the face of the earth, if they had the weaponry that would allow them to this? No, of course not. It would condemn them after the fact, and there would be inquiries, and everyone would shake their heads at how it was allowed to happen, and then nothing would change. If Hamas want peace, they have two options. Either win a war with Israel, or stop fighting. They can't keep fighting and then say how terrible Israel is for fighting back.

tucsongirl you have got the conflict the wrong way round there. Israel refused Hamas's ceasefire conditions. And Hamas are no march for Israel. How can you watch today's news and still bang on that Hamas are the aggressors. Talk about looking at things upside down!

tuscon what is it with the Israeli self-centered mentality? Its time to remove the blinkers. There are other humans who also feel pain. Other humans who have suffered as a direct result of the Israelis. Israel kills babies, infants, chidren, disabled, elderly,women,men.

There is only one way to stop this: Israel must stop its oppression. That goes beyond the bomb throwing. Have you seen daily life in Palestine? It is an open air prison. Inflicted by Israel.

How can we move forward? Israel acknowledges its crimes against humanity would be a very good start. It needs to stop its oppression. Can the arrogant bully do that? i doubt it very much!

So the Palestinians will continue to resist.

Hamas agrees to a ceasefire and continues to fire rockets into Israel. Hamas has been bombarding Israel with rockets over the last year as I've stayed before, and the world is surprised when Israel finally reacts??

If Hamas truly want peace then tgey would talk, discuss and compromise - accept Israel's existence - and not call for the total annihilation of Israel and all Jews whilst firing rockets at them and taunting them with three fingered salutes.. That doesn't make me think they want peace. I pray there will be peace and coexistence but I find it hard to believe Hamas will offer an olive branch sadly