Oscar Pistorius Trial Part 6

[Roussette]

here is Part 5 but we are ready (nearly) for a new one.

Actually I wasn't joking, given what we have heard about OP's behaviour elsewhere KM could very well have been frightened by him!
I know I would be!
It's just a shame Reeva wasn't.

Of course I will accept whatever verdict Masipa comes up with. She has an excellent reputation and is much cleverer than me.

As for inappropriate laughter, I am happy to leave that to others on this thread.
I do hope their pants are dry today!

Thank you, RoadKill.

Apparently, judgement, sentence argument then sentence not all on same day according to Barry Bateman S.A journo.

Thanks member.

Thanks, Roadkill, so yes, sentencing arguments/mitigation between judgement & sentence.

Thanks, Roadkill - that's a useful summary.

Quaditto Roadkill and agree with your sentiments. Much eyebrow-raising handling by SAP etc, so confidence placed in Judge Masipa to give a watertight decision.

Thanks for watching that video, Roadkill. (I know I am an incorrigible insomniac!).
My video clip posted earlier this morning (as opposed to the middle of the blooming night! ) was of the same retired Judge, Chris Greenland, talking about the adjournments and OP's emotional states bearing on the case.

He is a useful reference for the legal aspects in SA.
I believe there will be another Legal Panel on soon

Reading today's posts with interest. I feel it's appropriate to reference the four charges against him whilst considering whether he's telling the truth:

1. Illegal possession of ammunition - pleaded not guilty, but admitted possession, then testified to his defence for misleading him.
2. Discharging firearms in public: a) 11/1/13 Tasha restaurant - pleaded not guilty, but admitted that he was holding the firearm when it discharged. b) 30/11/12 sunroof incident - pleaded not guilty (are the two prosecution testimonies not to be believed - only part of the testimonies I have not heard in full?)
3. Pre-meditated murder - depends whether one can discount the Berger, Van Der Merwe, Stipps, Johnson testimonies for starters.

He certainly does not portray truthfulness.

I'm really trying to see things from the perspective of OP but there are too many inconsistencies that do not add up...I've really tried!

An interesting and useful summary Roadkill

Of course everyone wants it to be a robust and watertight decision, so agree the judge needs to take as long as she needs and not be rushed.

I hope Reeva's family have as much faith in the judge as we all do and that, at the end of the process, they feel justice has been served.

Just catching up"

A few things in response to posts made...

I think the not wanting to talk to the police, the first witness, was because the witness was worried that he might be giving statements to an unofficial or wrong person which could get him into trouble later. The couple from next door with the two children seemed very reluctant to be part of the trial. I also thought the guy mentioned Reeva's friendlieness either to give her family some comfort or as a defence tactic to gain favour/credence.

I don't understand the phone thing either but it's entirely possible isn't it,that when he ran down to open the door, he grabbed his phone that was charging downstairs to use because he saw it there. However, for it to need re-charging so soon suggests that it hadn't been charging for long (if at all) so that could be a reason to suspect that he had been up later than he said? (I often only put my phone on charge when I get into bed).

Re a comment about class and race, how are people guessing the witnesses race when they can't see them? Is it because of the language, accent or dialect?

I have to say, rewatching evidence today has got me wondering if the state can prove their case beyond reasonable doubt.

Masipa wont flinch, she has given a 150 year sentence for a DV murder before!

I will happily feel justice has been done when she wraps this up!

My feeling yesterday was that she would go with self defence or CH but today I am leaning more toward pre med murder

I don't really follow the phone thing. One downstairs on charge was there when cerise got there. Also the one op used to make calls from. So, had the work phone with him upstairs? Then took it down and stuck it on charge again? Doesn't really suggest murder? Not sure why it matters.

The defence hasn't provided anything other than neutral witnesses this week, who have given OP great character refs...

Nerf not sure why the phone matters but I felt Gerrie Nel's questions on it will be leading to some conclusion

Just don't know what that conclusion would be.

Stack. The names and accents tell me which race they are. Class I'm not sure about though

Oh, and worth mentioning... Assange is on the run from two rape charges too.

I suppose when I thought about him fleeing I wasn't thinking so much of him hiding, rather living a quiet life in a country with no extradition to SA

Although I have no knowledge of the world of fugitives so don't know if that is feasible

I think its because they dont need to prove that it was actually Reeva that he intended to kill which makes me think he may well be found guilty of pre med murder.

Ive sat on the fence over Reeva because even though the discussion on here have given very good reasons for him to have killed her deliberately and the number of woman killed each day in SA by their partners, I cant find much in the prosecution to determine that.

However, on the other side I cant find much in the defence to determine that OP had a good enough reason to shoot through the door with any other intention than to fatally harm whoever was behind the door.

There is nothing to allow anyone (Reevas family essentially) to know or understand what really happened that night, and that is a tradgedy, they will never really know why she was killed.

I do feel anger towards OP, anger for guns, anger for not doing what I think was the right thing in confessing straight away, anger that he understood the harm that guns could do and he blasted anyway, anger that he might just have done it by stupidity, anger that he alone has ruined so many lives.

Do I wish him to rot in jail, no because Ive never believed that no one is beyond reabilitation, that everyone (barr very few people) once they have served their time deserves a second chance, so when sentencing is given I will not be cheering, just a sense of justice and sadness.

Another rambling post, apologies

We only have OP's word that they spent the evening /night upstairs. Maybe they were downstairs and he was using his work phone there, then put it on charge when they went upstairs much later, after their late meal. I just think we cannot take as read anything he has said about how they spent their tine that night.

Spot on OneStepCloser. Will it matter that he was aiming to kill an intruder or Reeva? Will Reeva's family feel cheated that they will never know what his intention was with regard to her/arguments/violence etc.

I just wish he had treated a killing implement with far more respect, that he had taken maybe 20 seconds to think about what he was doing, that he (if he thought it was an intruder) properly spoke to Reeva, that he called security/police and went downstairs with Reeva. But more than anything I hope he one day faces up to exactly what he did. Maybe he is doing that now. I don't know.

I understood that murder charge aside, there's time (in terms of years) that could be served for the other charges?

I'm interested in what makes you think the prosecution is losing, Stack, given the terrible performance of the defense experts?

Now I (fractionally) understand the legal traps, I think Nel has done a great job.

I actually think Roux has done ok with what he has to work with but his witnesses and experts seem determined to sabotage him (and don't get me started on OP's performance!)

Poor Roux must be tearing his hair out!

OneStep not rambling. Whilst the question here oft links to Reeva, yes, the prosecution actually are determining their case irrespective of who was behind the door. That it was his girlfriend, well....

Not sure I'll say this the right way (and I may very well be wrong), but I don't think he appears to be evil, nor unrepentant, nor unremorseful... For those reasons, and because I do think he may have immediately realised he'd committed the most appalling act of violence and would desperately want to turn the clock back, I don't see that a long sentence is in anyone's interests. Unless he really is proven to be a menace to society.