Britain NOT a “Christian county” – since when??

[Isitmebut]

Generally speaking, when taking a snapshot of any country there are several nation traits most people just know about us that is made up of from a rich history and traditions, and Britain is no exception.

We have a monarchy, we speak English, our currency is the English Pound Sterling (lol), we still eat fish and chips out of a newspaper - and if you asked what our religion is, whether they knew about Henry VIII’s spat with the Pope or not, without the need to be specific they’d say we were ‘Christian’ – ask anyone.

Well not everyone, and certainly not the 55 ‘public figures’ that have accused Cameron for daring to point out the bleedin’ obvious, after nearly 1,000 years of international and domestic wars/conflicts, fought in the name of a ‘Christian’ religion – who accuse him of “mischaracterising” Britain, “fostering alienation” and argue that members of an elected government have no right to “actively prioritise” religion or any particular faith. Wh-at????

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10777270/David-Cameron-fuelling-sectarian-division-by-bringing-God-into-politics.html

They argued that, apart from a “narrow constitutional sense”, there is no evidence to justify describing Britain as Christian, mainly because the 2011 Census saw a dramatic fall in those tick boxing ‘Christian’, wh-at???

Forgetting God for a moment, after several years now most citizens still won’t acknowledge that we have a honking great budget deficit and national debt - and that there has been the greatest recession since the 1930’s, yet there is far more historical and current evidence out there that it all exists - so don’t use dumb statistics of a Census that included those ticking ‘Jedi’ as a religion, to diss 1,000 years of our history.

Now I have no cares for looking into (and then trying to label) their political motives, but it seems rather ‘Leftie’ to me – and far too similar to this little bit of ‘social engineering’, designed to QUOTE “rub the Right’s nose in diversity”, by the last government.

“Labour wanted mass immigration to make UK more multicultural, says former adviser”

“Labour threw open Britain's borders to mass immigration to help socially engineer a "truly multicultural" country, a former Government adviser has revealed.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

So is this YET MORE ‘nose rubbing’ by Lefties into Righties in the name of ‘diversity’, as Cameron was not ‘doing down’ the other religions, who themselves would resist any notion that their OWN countries were secular, so rightly acknowledge that the UK is a ‘Christian’ country.

“David Cameron Christianity claim backed by religious groups”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27105023

Religious groups have backed Prime Minister David Cameron's assertion Britain is "a Christian country".

Hindu Council UK said it was "very comfortable" with the description. The Muslim Council of Britain said the UK was a largely Christian country.

So based on our proud history as an ethnic religiously TOLERENT nation and the role that ‘The Protestant Work Ethic’ had on our prosperity, who is to TELL OUR GOVERNMENT that we are NOT a ‘Christian’ country, or indeed that Christianity still has a role in today’s society - to help solve some of the work ethic problems that have grown within our society, now all the money has gone?

“Niall Ferguson - Killer 'apps': the ideas that propelled the west to world domination (see list at bottom of this link)”
www.theguardian.com/books/2011/feb/20/niall-ferguson-interview-civilization

1. Work ethic: As Max Weber noted a century ago, Protestantism was a form of Christianity that encouraged hard work (and just as importantly, Ferguson adds, reading and saving). It isn't a coincidence, he says, that the decline of religion in Europe has led to Europeans becoming the "idlers of the world" (while the more religious US has remained hard-working). Interestingly, Ferguson also argues that China's embrace of hard work is partly because of the spread there of Protestantism.

We had 13-years of ‘Lefties’ running our government, their Quangocracy, most of our media, our education system, the police etc etc etc.

So (from a lapsed CoE ‘weddings and funerals only’ citizen) god help us as a monarchy, an individual State with proud traditions/rights and our prosperity, when they get back in and finish off the destructive job to the British way of life they started in 1997, and left as a work in progress, in 2010.

So is your "wh-at" point about the census that lots of Christians didn't tick the box to say that they were Christian? I know that different individuals and different institutions have different qualifications for who they would consider "a Christian" but being prepared to say that you are a Christian seems a pretty basic qualifier by anyone's standards.

Your posts aren't "self explanatory", by the way. A good proportion of them are borderline incomprehensible because you seem to have followed a stream-of-consciousness style, without reviewing what you've written, and many of your sentences don't make sense.

For example, the sentence: Before 1997 immigration was controlled, with no "diversity" experiments where "the rights noses had to be rubbed in" and twice as many general election NON EU citizens are waved into the UK under the cover of membership of the EU, for political gain, despite the shortage of jobs and homes for the then indigenous multi-cultural citizens

What's a "general election NON EU citizen"? And what does the rest of that sentence mean?

So actually your thread isn't about Christianity at all, but rather about how much you hate Labour? So your title is disingenuous?

And no, your posts aren't self-explanatory at all. I'd also like to know what a general election non eu citizen is...

Oh, and there are plenty of Christians I'm worried about too, far more than radical Islamists. Anyone who is pro-life, for example. Catholicism is Christianity, but I find many Catholic opinions very worrying indeed.

Yes, it is you.

well at least you don't discriminate you don't tolerate anyone that doesn't think the same as you

"we are historically and remain a Christian country with EVERYONE free within to have their own religions and worship their own gods in peace – end of story."

It's not really true to say that historically everyone has been free to have their own religions and worship their own gods in peace. Only a few hundred years ago Catholics were being burnt at the stake. And more recently than that, the only two universities in the country, Oxford and Cambridge, were closed to Jews and other non-Christians.

So tolerance of other religions is a relatively recent thing. And that increasing tolerance has gone hand-in-hand with the decline of Christianity in this country. Perhaps 70 or 80 years ago the majority of people in this country were practising Christians; now, only a tiny minority are. You can still call Britain a "Christian country" if you want, but only in the sense that the church and state are closely aligned, not in the sense that most people are Christians.

Now that's what I call a Christian country and we need to return to these traditional values.

Ha ha ha….do you have anything a bit more ‘current’ on Christian atrocities within the UK, than Margaret Clitherow of “only” 430 years ago, as if you want to pathetically deflect from the current, debate, on the current Christian status and values of the UK – I could show you endless newspaper examples of indiscriminate NON CHRISTIAN atrocities all in the name of religion, in numerous other countries NOW and for decades before, as they ain’t new.

Based on that, I'd suggest people are safer here under a Christian umbrella.

Still it makes a change from seeing a deflection citing Margaret Thatcher of around 33-years ago for all this nations ‘problems’, even after 13-years of Labour.

Ivykaty44 …..”think” has nothing to do with it, I discriminate against Labour due to FACTS, for their incompetent record whilst in power - and then cynically blaming the coalition for try to sort out the aftermath.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/politics/2049409-Do-you-think-Labour-DESERVES-to-get-a-majority-in-2015

DebbieofMaddox….I find it very interesting people are citing census results re Christians, as it almost looks as if the lefties are following them to ascertain voting patterns e.g. what would it cost Labour in votes to strip the UK of it’s Christian label, for political gain, after all we have (secretly) been socially engineering our ‘diversity’, dating back to 2001.

But re my opening post and your post quoting an example of diversity;

“Labour wanted mass immigration to make UK more multicultural, says former adviser”
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

“Labour threw open Britain's borders to mass immigration to help socially engineer a "truly multicultural" country, a former Government adviser has revealed.”

"The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett."

"He said Labour's relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to "open up the UK to mass migration" but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its "core working class vote".

“As a result, the public argument for immigration concentrated instead on the economic benefits and need for more migrants.”

“Critics said the revelations showed a "conspiracy" within Government to impose mass immigration for "cynical" political reasons.”

We then look at the ‘Commonwealth’ and ‘Other’ on the Chart I provided on Page 2 of this thread I believe (provided again below), which I carry on to ask why (from the 1991-1999 average) we felt the need to increase those numbers, other than for their voting patterns, when we were opening up our borders to the EU workforce already back then with significant unemployment and a lack of homes?

Table 1... Inflows (thousands)…...EU……….Commonwealth………Other…...
Average 1991 – 1999……………....60,000………….87,000…………….86,000
Average 2000 – 2003……….….....62,000………..101,000…………..120,000
2004……………………………….........130,000……….215,000……………155,000
2005……………………………….........152,000……….180,000…………….137,000
2006……………………………….........170,000……….201,000…………….143,000
2007……………………..........….....195,000………..174,000……………131,000

And the relevance of a NON EU immigrant's right to vote in General Elections (whereas mainly Christian EU citizens can not)this will not be lost on Miliband’s new advisors who used the ethnic vote via ‘Operation Vote’ to get a policy short Obama re elected in 2012.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/politics/2057186-Labour-signs-up-Obama-s-Axelrod-No-We-Can-t

So is it totally inconceivable for the lefties to attack a simple statement by Cameron on the obvious, the UK is historically Christian, for political ends?

Well recent political history mentioned at the top of this page re the countries within the UK, the EU, and immigration - screams that nothing within these isles is sacred to ditch for Labour votes/power.

You know you keep saying your posts are understandable and self-explanatory?

You said, yesterday, and twice as many general election NON EU citizens are waved into the UK under the cover of membership of the EU, for political gain...

Which apparently translates as... a non-EU citizen's right to vote in a general election? Is that right?

Can I ask for some proof of what you are saying other than your own second thread...?

I could show you endless newspaper examples of indiscriminate NON CHRISTIAN atrocities all in the name of religion, in numerous other countries NOW and for decades before, as they ain’t new.

Absolutely. It's not just one religion, but religion itself that is the problem. That's why no one in their right mind would put religion in charge of anything more important than a boot sale.

Actually I take that back. You'd probably get complaints that the Christian stall owners were refusing to serve Jews or anyone who looked gay. So not even a boot sale.

Why can't it be a country for the people who live here anyway. Why does it need to be defined as belonging to one group or another?

Can someone explain what this thread is about?

@ kim

How can it be good for the country when it treats women as second class citizens? The women bishops fiasco was outrageous and no other organisation would get away with such blatant sex discrimination. Bah!

Thurlow ....IS THIS proof enough - read it through.

www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/who_can_register_to_vote.aspx

Do you think the Christian church has been a force for good in this country?

well, perhaps they used to do some good - caring for the sick, aiding the poor - but they were funded by tithes. So essentially, they were taxing the population to provide a (limited) welfare state. If they hadn't gone and spent a lot of their money on fancy buildings it'd look rather leftie...

And now some of the things they do of benefit outside their own congregations are things like food banks - making up for deficiencies in our currently non-leftie state.

While the CofE has been caricatured as 'the Conservative party at prayer', the lines really aren't drawn like that.

"Ha ha ha….do you have anything a bit more ‘current’ on Christian atrocities within the UK, than Margaret Clitherow of “only” 430 years ago."

I don't think you've really understood the point that kim147 and I are making, which is that if you associate Christian values with tolerance, you are wrong. In fact, as this country has become less Christian, it has become more tolerant.

Let me remind you what you said:

""we are historically and remain a Christian country with EVERYONE free within to have their own religions and worship their own gods in peace – end of story."

You used the word "historically" to try to demonstrate that people have been free to practise their own religion for a long time. Kim147 and I have attempted to explain that historically, that has not in fact been the case.

If you meant that today Britain is a Christian country and that its tolerance is a direct result of its Christianity, you should have said so. You'd still be wrong, of course.

I don't see what the issue is. You are allowed to vote in this country if you have residency or permanent leave to remain etc.

What, specifically, is your issue?

And while you're back on here, I would still love to know whether this thread is about Christianity or Labour. You keep mentioning Christianity, but then just rant away about how much you dislike Labour. Which is fine - public forum, your opinion etc - but I don't get what hating Labour has to do with a thread entitled "Britain is NOT a Christian country since when?" or, alternatively, I don't get why the question "Britain is NOT a Christian country since when?" can simply be answered with 'I hate Labour'.

Thurlow, I think this thread arises from confusion - an anti-leftie 'reds under the beds' mentality, presuming there must be some party political motivation for a letter from what is actually a diverse group of people concerned about divisive attitudes.