Britain NOT a “Christian county” – since when??

[Isitmebut]

Generally speaking, when taking a snapshot of any country there are several nation traits most people just know about us that is made up of from a rich history and traditions, and Britain is no exception.

We have a monarchy, we speak English, our currency is the English Pound Sterling (lol), we still eat fish and chips out of a newspaper - and if you asked what our religion is, whether they knew about Henry VIII’s spat with the Pope or not, without the need to be specific they’d say we were ‘Christian’ – ask anyone.

Well not everyone, and certainly not the 55 ‘public figures’ that have accused Cameron for daring to point out the bleedin’ obvious, after nearly 1,000 years of international and domestic wars/conflicts, fought in the name of a ‘Christian’ religion – who accuse him of “mischaracterising” Britain, “fostering alienation” and argue that members of an elected government have no right to “actively prioritise” religion or any particular faith. Wh-at????
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10777270/David-Cameron-fuelling-sectarian-division-by-bringing-God-into-politics.html

They argued that, apart from a “narrow constitutional sense”, there is no evidence to justify describing Britain as Christian, mainly because the 2011 Census saw a dramatic fall in those tick boxing ‘Christian’, wh-at???

Forgetting God for a moment, after several years now most citizens still won’t acknowledge that we have a honking great budget deficit and national debt - and that there has been the greatest recession since the 1930’s, yet there is far more historical and current evidence out there that it all exists - so don’t use dumb statistics of a Census that included those ticking ‘Jedi’ as a religion, to diss 1,000 years of our history.

Now I have no cares for looking into (and then trying to label) their political motives, but it seems rather ‘Leftie’ to me – and far too similar to this little bit of ‘social engineering’, designed to QUOTE “rub the Right’s nose in diversity”, by the last government.

“Labour wanted mass immigration to make UK more multicultural, says former adviser”

“Labour threw open Britain's borders to mass immigration to help socially engineer a "truly multicultural" country, a former Government adviser has revealed.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

So is this YET MORE ‘nose rubbing’ by Lefties into Righties in the name of ‘diversity’, as Cameron was not ‘doing down’ the other religions, who themselves would resist any notion that their OWN countries were secular, so rightly acknowledge that the UK is a ‘Christian’ country.

“David Cameron Christianity claim backed by religious groups”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27105023

Religious groups have backed Prime Minister David Cameron's assertion Britain is "a Christian country".

Hindu Council UK said it was "very comfortable" with the description. The Muslim Council of Britain said the UK was a largely Christian country.

So based on our proud history as an ethnic religiously TOLERENT nation and the role that ‘The Protestant Work Ethic’ had on our prosperity, who is to TELL OUR GOVERNMENT that we are NOT a ‘Christian’ country, or indeed that Christianity still has a role in today’s society - to help solve some of the work ethic problems that have grown within our society, now all the money has gone?

“Niall Ferguson - Killer 'apps': the ideas that propelled the west to world domination (see list at bottom of this link)”
www.theguardian.com/books/2011/feb/20/niall-ferguson-interview-civilization

1. Work ethic: As Max Weber noted a century ago, Protestantism was a form of Christianity that encouraged hard work (and just as importantly, Ferguson adds, reading and saving). It isn't a coincidence, he says, that the decline of religion in Europe has led to Europeans becoming the "idlers of the world" (while the more religious US has remained hard-working). Interestingly, Ferguson also argues that China's embrace of hard work is partly because of the spread there of Protestantism.
   

We had 13-years of ‘Lefties’ running our government, their Quangocracy, most of our media, our education system, the police etc etc etc.

So (from a lapsed CoE ‘weddings and funerals only’ citizen) god help us as a monarchy, an individual State with proud traditions/rights and our prosperity, when they get back in and finish off the destructive job to the British way of life they started in 1997, and left as a work in progress, in 2010.

[Isitmebut]

If the UK wasn’t Christian and had Christian values, we would not be as multicultural as we are, and if other European countries that maybe Christian, had our value, maybe all the millions of non-Christians (and political asylum seekers) that fly here could save time and money and get off a plane long BEFORE they reach the UK.

If anyone wants to cite woman’s rights from India, Saudi Arabia, the Sudan, Afghanistan or many other non Christian country that are more equal than ours – give it a shot – also listing the western countries deemed to have better women’s right than the UK.

If anyone can cite a non Christian country where the non indigenous population could insist they denounce their countries religious for something more ‘politically correct’ - and NOT either be jailed as blasphemous or told to sod right off – please do.

If anyone can name a country in the Middle or Far East where Christians live as a community practising their faith and can feel safer from potentially serious persecution than non Christians here, please let us know.

If anyone can list countries that have recently called themselves multi faith, let us know.

If anyone can name a country where Christian Missionaries have lived (and died) and on the whole did not make lives better for their sacrifice, let us know.

In conclusion; the UK heritage in being Christian, unlike other religions in other countries neither harms or promotes anybody, so if it ain’t broke, it don’t need fixing – but the danger remains socialist that care nothing for our heritage/sovereignty like to change hundreds of years of our traditions for something to do, they find those constitutional ‘reforms’ easier than building the Private Sector/prosperity - but fail to come up with better alternatives.

The danger of opening the subject, for whatever reason, is it becomes divisive, and funny old world suits those on the left of politics, than those on the right.

“Break Church and State link, says Clegg”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nick-clegg/10784676/Break-Church-and-State-link-says-Clegg.html

“Deputy Prime Minister calls for disestablishment of Church of England, saying two should no longer be "bound up" together”

So bring it up again under the next Labour administration and you'll no doubt get your way.

[hackmum]

"If anyone can name a country where Christian Missionaries have lived (and died) and on the whole did not make lives better for their sacrifice, let us know."

Well, in a lot of cases, Christian missionaries brought European diseases such as measles with them, thereby wiping out indigenous populations who had no resistance.

The advent of Christian missionaries had a devastating effect on the Australian aborigines by imposing Christianity and outlawing traditional religious practices (see e.g. www.aiatsis.gov.au/collections/exhibitions/missions/background.html) and in many other countries.

[JodieGarberJacob]

Go CLEGGY! He's gone right up in my estimation.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

If anyone can name a country where Christian Missionaries have lived (and died) and on the whole did not make lives better for their sacrifice, let us know.

How much time have you got? The answer is pretty much all of them.

Of course if you define 'better' as becoming subservient to a church hierarchy then I guess they were often successful, but if you're allowed to make up your own definition then someone could claim that Poland was 'better' once it was invaded.

the UK heritage in being Christian, unlike other religions in other countries neither harms or promotes anybody

Fetch a camp bed, food and a big notebook. If you are unaware of the damage religion does in this country then we're going to have to start with basics and your education could take months or years.

Have you considered having a daily paper delivered so you can learn a little about the society you live in?

[BackOnlyBriefly]

Oh and as for the "Christianity is nicer cos we don't kill you for being atheists/infidals" that's bullshit too. Christians used to kill people for those reasons all the time. You couldn't get away with it now because if you tried it the backlash would give us a secular state overnight.

Hmm might be worth it if you want to have a try?

[ErrolTheDragon]

'neither harms or promotes anybody' - no, that's what secularism does. Comparing one religion against another misses the point - we don't need the country to 'be' any religion.

[Isitmebut]

The subject is of the UK as a historic Christian roots that shaped our society, with Cameron’s speech to commemorate 400-years of the St James’s Bible - that 55 people believe the PM of this country shouldn’t as HE was stirring ONGOING religious issues, rather than their very public attempt to create an issue from a non inflammatory speech.

We are not on trial for all things Christian for hundreds of years before, like the stupid, nay PATHETIC accusation missionary’s intended to spread measles and small pox in the course of their work – and certainly to any religions that like to spread their word to non believers by violence to this day.

So do you think this lot are still running riot, spreading diseases and not really helping people??
christianity.about.com/od/denominations/p/christiantoday.htm
Missionaries and Christian Workers:

"In the unevangelized world, there are 20,500 full-time Christian workers and 10,200 foreign missionaries."

"In the evangelized non-Christian world, there are 1.31 million full-time Christian workers."

"In the Christian world, there are 306,000 foreign missionaries to other Christian lands. Also, 4.19 million full-time Christian workers (95%) work within the Christian world."

Even if you don’t, if they’re not too radicalized and/or using guns and explosives to force their words to others, I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

BTW you seem to be cherry picking my list above peeps, based on your accusations of peoples ‘rights’ in this country; I look forward to your answers on the UK’s other ‘crimes’ which makes us such a nasty place to fly to, be allowed to settle, and live in relative peace.

[Isitmebut]

ErroltheDragon...who is 'WE' and why do you think that you speak for the United Kingdom, or even the majority of people?

WE are currently a Christian UK that hurts no one, and certainly don't need to be changed as that is not want countries do (provide examples for your case), certainly the main countries from the other main religious groups here - and 'we' would be very annoyed if it was as that would be UK politicians caving in on constitutional issues for votes, like they have been.

[ivykaty44]

But of course he was helping you lighten your load..!

[Thurlow]

A.Christian UK that hurts no one? Really? Really? What about the illegal war in Iraq? What about the mistreatment of Gurkas who fought for us? What about the continual.degradation of aboriginal people in Commonwealth countries like Australia and New Zealand?

[ErrolTheDragon]

I meant simply that 'we' as in 'anyone' don't actually need the country to have a religion. In the same way that the people of the USA don't need a national religion, for example. I certainly don't presume to speak for the UK ... as you appear to in some of your posts.


'WE are currently a Christian UK that hurts no one'.
But it does. It hurts children who are discriminated against so that they can't get a place their local school, to give a blindingly obvious example. It hurts teachers who are discriminated against in finding jobs in areas with disproportionately large numbers of faith schools. Until very recently it hurt homosexuals who wanted to marry.

[CoteDAzur]

"I can't go to Muslim or other countries and tell them they are NOT a country of Muslim or ant other faith - can you name one that I could?????????????????????????"

Turkey - its state has no religion. Constitution says the country is a secular republic.

Rantiness is bad enough on its own but it's really bad when coupled with ignorance.

As for your idea of the UK as a Christian country - Have you noticed that about 25% of the population says they have "no religion"?

[Isitmebut]

CoteDAzur ......you mentioned ignorance, do you want to tell me the 'mix' of religions of Turkey, or shall I tell you?

Hah, you've been so obnoxious I can't keep it to myself;

Turkey has 99.0% registered as Muslim, and did the the other 1% forget to register? lol

Re the 'no religion' we have already gone over that, some put 'Jedi', who is to say why they put that?

[CoteDAzur]

Now you are just embarrassing yourself.

Please do tell me the 'mix of religions' in Turkey. Or anything else you think you know about the place, really. I'd love you to teach me about the country I grew up in

"Forgot to register"? You seem to think you are funny.

[Isitmebut]

Thurlow....based on the subject, the religion of this country, you are starting to look stupid with your non related subjects.

I have no interest in getting in a bun fight of who has killed more people of any religion over the past few decades, as many of the conflicts were (and still) Muslim vs Muslim, Sunni versus Shia - how civilized was the pictures of the battlefields of dead Muslims still lying there on arab TV during the Iran vs Iraq war I'd have to watch on the news in Kuwait?

Stick to the subject, why should the UK change it's religious status when other countries would not even think about it, never mind change their religious status - especially as it will influence the laws of those States.

[CoteDAzur]

Thurlow isn't looking stupid at all, on this thread or any other that I can recall.

You, on the other hand...

[BillyBanter]

Oh do fuck off you bigoted cunt.

[Isitmebut]

CoteDAzur ....you grew up in Turkey and didn't think that the fact it is a Muslim State meant it was a rubbish example (re the very multi cultural UK) to get aggressive to me about about?

Now that is what I'd embarrassing, and shame they didn't pass on their sense of humour as I used to visit senior government people there and entertained them back in the UK - and the people I met could laugh at themselves.

FYI Boris Johnson's family on one side was involved and was murdered for opposing Turkey's secular status, it was on Who Do You Think You Are, one of the best I've seen.

[CoteDAzur]

"why should the UK change it's religious status when other countries would not even think about it, never mind change their religious status - especially as it will influence the laws of those States"

(1) Your logic is faulty - Would you say UK should change it's 'religious status' (what?) if other countries were doing it? Would you not then say "We don't care what they do, we are a different country and we do things our way? So what are you talking about here?

(2) Not all countries have state religion, not even all Muslim countries have a state religion, as I tried to teach you with the example of Turkey which has a Muslim population but is secular (i.e. state has no religion).

re UK: The point people are making is that the UK is not really a de facto Christian country anymore, with a large chunk of its population (about 25%) believing in no religion and a significant portion (about 10%) following religions other than Christianity.

[Isitmebut]

BillyBanter .... a man of few words and they are all profanities. Bless.

[CoteDAzur]

"you grew up in Turkey and didn't think that the fact it is a Muslim State meant it was a rubbish example"

IT IS NOT A MUSLIM STATE

Look up the word "secular".

Let's use it in a sentence: Turkey is a secular republic.

That means, It Is Not A Muslim State.

[BillyBanter]

I call a cunt a cunt.