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News

Oscar Pistorius trial part 3

999 replies

JillJ72 · 12/04/2014 19:08

Hiya,

Thread 1 here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2022610-Oscar-Pistorius-trial

Thread 2 here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2049921-Oscar-Pistorius-trial-part-2

To continue our respectful, open, interesting discussion.

OP posts:
Smitten1981 · 13/04/2014 14:13

This is interesting about his defence changing: criminallawza.net/2014/04/13/pistoriuss-new-defence/

ballsballsballs · 13/04/2014 14:15

Did she lock him in the bedroom, and hide in the bathroom?

That poor woman.

Roussette · 13/04/2014 14:23

Reading that article Smitten is making me think dear lord please don't let him get off scot free on that basis. From the restaurant firing of a gun to this, he seems to be claiming that it was all an involuntary reaction and his conduct was not under the control of his mind. Surely his defence can't be aiming to get him off on that basis? One shot a miniscule possibility, but four??

AmIthatSpringy · 13/04/2014 14:27

aventurine. I read that as an implication he was thinking about concealing the body.

Although he said that Miss Stander asked him to get the rope - can be easily corroborated or not.

balls. I think the speculation may be that she locked herself in the bedroom then ran to the bathroom and toilet

ballsballsballs · 13/04/2014 14:29

Springy :(

BookABooSue · 13/04/2014 14:37

I remember them talking about the bedroom door when the police were on the stand and I thought it was odd that the door was damaged. I wonder if the noise of OP banging into the bedroom door accounts for the difference in sounds that the neighbours heard? Didn't one of them say she heard 4 bangs then 3 bangs and the defence implied it was the cricket bat that made some of the noises. Maybe some of the noises were OP banging into the door.

Bonnielangbird · 13/04/2014 14:43

But I still don't see why she wouldn't have called someone for help. If a mad boyfriend is literally bashing down a door to get to me I would be terrified and would phone someone. Surely? Unless there was no reception in the toilet?

Roussette · 13/04/2014 14:46

I would imagine she was paralysed with fear and had no time.

Bonnielangbird · 13/04/2014 14:58

But she had enough time to take one (or two, not sure which is correct) phones with her presumably with the aim of using them (if this scenario is correct I mean). Would you really be paralysed with fear before any sign of a gun if there had been no physical violence prior to this? Or maybe he had threatened her with it earlier.

It must take some time to knock through a door as well surely, allowing time to phone someone. And how could he be sure she wasn't phoning anyone (or hadn't phoned anyone for that matter)? Would he have been able to check her phone/phones himself afterwards? Seems less plausible to me given she had her phone with her.

Very interesting article smitten

catinbootz · 13/04/2014 15:25

Marking place for tomorrow

JackyDanny · 13/04/2014 15:53

Reeva is not on trial here bonnie

JackyDanny · 13/04/2014 16:00

Being shot in the hip she was probably not even thinking about phones...it's all speculation anyway.

The fact is, he murdered her and she had said by text message, she was scared of him.
With good reason.

ExcuseTypos · 13/04/2014 16:04

Springy I doubt he was thinking of hiding a body. He phoned people for help, minutes after the shooting didn't he?

bonnie I also thought that about OP not knowing if Reeva had phoned someone. If they had argued and he saw the phone (after he'd shot her) he had no idea if she'd texted or called anyone. Therefore whatever story he told, could have been completely rubbished if Reeva had sent a text. Surely he would have been aware of that possibility. This is one if the reasons I think he's telling the truth about not knowing Reeva was in there.

eddiemairswife · 13/04/2014 16:05

Completely irrelevant I know, but I was interested to read in today's Observer that for both Roux and Nels English is not their 1st language.

AmIthatSpringy · 13/04/2014 16:06

bonnie difficult to say indeed about the phone thing. Maybe she didn't have it all and he took it into the bathroom later. Or maybe, as you say, there was no signal

AmIthatSpringy · 13/04/2014 16:09

ExcuseTypos. I agree with you. A poster asked about the mention of them in the link to a blog. I said that's what appeared to be implied in the blog

I think it is rubbish as he said Clarice Stander told him to get the rope and that is easy to corroborate

Roussette · 13/04/2014 16:12

or maybe her hands were shaking so much she couldn't dial anything.

I know when something happened to me once (I am not likening it to what reeva went through) I was incapable of dialling anything. I was shit scared and I kept trying to dial a number and couldn't because I was shaking so much.

emotionsecho · 13/04/2014 16:22

Very interesting article smitten it clarifies a tweet I read from someone about how Nel had scored a major victory with OP saying he didn't intend to kill anyone and that it was an accident/accidental discharge and why Nel kept pushing on that point, apparently he cannot now claim "self-defence".

Other thoughts/observations - fair point louise re if Op moved stuff in the bedroom it would be to back-up his version of events and not the other way round.

The sides of the bed OP and Reeva slept on - I understood that Reeva was on the window side because OP said he got out of the bed and came round the bottom of the bed to the windows to get the fans and close the windows. I also understod that his gun was on the window side of the bed, I thought I saw a photo of the holster under that side of the bed (could be wrong). This is why I cannot believe he did not know that Reeva had got out of bed, and is why Nel keeps on about the position of the fans, etc. Also, on this point if, as I understand it, Reeva was the window side of the bed when OP came to get his gun there is no way he could not have known she wasn't in the bed. OP states he is roughly 5'4" without his prosthetics, but he is a disproportionate 5'4", i.e., more torso than leg so his torso and head would be lower to the bed than a normally proportioned person of 5'4", therefore he would be more not less likely to see or sense/feel if someone was in the bed.

The open window in the bathroom - as I have understood it so far, the bedroom door was locked, the alarm was on, OP was shutting and locking the balcony windows next to the bed. Why would Reeva then go into the bathroom and open a window that had no burglar bars on it? Reeva knew SA and had been a victim of a house break in, is it really conceivable that she would compromise their security by opening a window which would allow an intruder access to them? Did Reeva really open that window, or did OP after the event, or was it always open?

I saw on Sky News the other night Alex Crawford standing in the toilet cubicle they have reconsructed in the court room, it is an exact replica of the one in OP's house. It is tiny, there is nowhere for anyone to hide in it, no way to avoid bullets flying through the door, OP knew this when he fired, whoever was in there had no means of escape. He didn't fire a warning shot either high or low into the door he fired at the middle of the door where it would hit someone in the torso and inflict the maximum damage to them. If he had fired just one shot I could go with unintentional, but he fired four, he pulled the trigger four times, his gun was loaded with bullets designed to cause maximum damage to a human or animal.

I initially thought he was not guilty of pre-meditated murder of Reeva, thought he had intended to kill an intruder and it was a tragic case of mstaken identity. I just don't believe that now, there are way too many inconsistencies coupled with his desparation not to take any responsibility for anything. I think they did have a row, she wanted to leave, he got his gun from under the bed (as he was that side of the bed closing the windows) whether to move it to his side of the bed or to scare her, he blocked her exit through the bedroom door and she ran to the toilet cubicle and locked herself in and he shot her through the door.

JillJ72 · 13/04/2014 16:23

If the bedroom door has a tale to tell, why didn't the prosecution cover it (and if they did, did they do so in depth)? I just keep feeling that the prosecution skirted around the edges of a lot, unless their strategy is to pin Oscar down whilst on the stand...?

OP posts:
JillJ72 · 13/04/2014 16:24

And I think Flowers for everyone on this thread who has experienced EA, DV, and fear at the reaction of others Sad

OP posts:
BookABooSue · 13/04/2014 16:25

It's definitely possible that it all happened too quickly for Reeva to call someone. Plus if OP had never physically hurt her before then she might not have realised how grave the threat was. From reading EA and DV threads on here, it's quite common to assume the best of your partner even when being faced with the very worst behaviour. Sad

emotionsecho · 13/04/2014 16:26

Even though I now think OP intentionally murdered Reeva, I really wish I didn't and that is not what happened, poor Reeva.

AmIthatSpringy · 13/04/2014 16:31

Jill. I suspect that is the state's strategy. I bet we hear about the damage to the door tomorrow.

You know it struck me that OP could quire easily have skipped bail. His wider family have the means to effect a private plane trip to somewhere without an extradition treaty.

I don't know know if he is standing trial because he is innocent of premeditated murder, or if he is really so arrogant that he doesn't believe he will be found guilty

AnyaKnowIt · 13/04/2014 16:34

So if the cricket bat was used to lock the bedroom door. Reeva must have moved it to go to the toilet. This must have been known by Oscar that reeva wasn't in the bedroom.

AmIthatSpringy · 13/04/2014 16:36

anya. What do you mean?