Missing Malaysia Airlines MH370... Thread 4

[GoldieMumbles]

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Not a question or anything that advances our thinking at all, but it occurred to me today that if wreckage is found at some point, most people's instinctive gut reaction will now be 'phew', given the possible other scenarios that are being discussed.

Which in terms of the passengers and crew is very

Welcome back Goldie, btw, sorry, meant to say that! Glad you reappeared. Have really appreciated all the info I've learned from you over the last couple of days.

Very pleased to see Goldie back

question re cyber terrorism

(not for goldie, I know you can't answer)

Assuming that this wasn't a government-level thing, assuming its a bunch of terrorists, say.

How are people thinking this would work? Because we've established, I do believe , that there's no mobile contact, and little civilian satellite cover. (obviously, if military satellites are being used that's a whole other ball game)

So- passenger onboard? Plugs in a memory stick and this reprograms the plane? But it seem unlikely that no one would notice and do something. Also-seriously? No manual override for pilots? Literally NOTHING they could do? Surely pilots have a manual override, reboot, etc in the event of a serious computer failure-and surely they would have realised that that was what was going on?

This might seem somewhat (very?) bad taste - but tonight's episode of Air Crash Investigation on NatGeo is about the Helios 522 flight. It's on now on NatGeo (526) and repeated on NatGeo+1 (527) at 8 pm.

I'm not sure I want to watch it, but it could be helpful in explaining what and how that happened to that aircraft.

PS: If anyone does think my post is in bad taste - please report to MNHQ and say that I'd prefer it was deleted rather than derail the thread or upset anyone.

yggdrasil that was exactly what I was thinking too. Surely there must be a way for the pilots to shut down the errant systems and manually fly the plane (presuming they were in any fit state to do so). But if it is possible to prevent any kind of manual override, would there have been any other way for the pilots to put out a distress call?

Just wanted to add Goldie has grace as well as brains. She has started this thread as if nothing has happened, is giving information in her usual cool, collected manner and has not mentioned the snidely comments.

Classy.

Ygg, human pilots do have override privileges. Someone controlling a plane through the autopilot would have to put them out of action somehow.

So *Garlic, does that mean that any cyber hijacker would have to be on board the plane so that the pilots could be incapacitated to prevent a manual override? Had a quick read of the links here and these imply that a cyber hijack is theoretically possible from the ground.

"...because there are horrified geeks somewhere who never thought it would come to this with real people missing/dead. Or because the developers have further use in mind and do not want anyone to discover the capability and they it is them who have it.^

That does not sound inconceivable to me. Anything that's connected to a 'network' can potential be hacked into and manipulated / hijacked. However, I remember that it was said that the communication systems had to be shut down by hand.

I'd like to know which countries haven't come back with a security check on their passenger yet.

Digression alert: As a trivial example of why it's not the best idea to allow higher privileges to a system than to the human operating it, I was once stuck on the Docklands Light Railway for ages because it had sensed an obstruction on the line. Even though the train operator (no 'drivers') could see it was just a stray carrier bag, that whole loop shut itself down until all of its safety procedures had been observed. I hope they've fixed that now!

This is probably yet another very stupid question, so apologies in advance, but as countries are understandably cautious about sharing their intelligence data, would there be any way that countries could submit data anonymously?

re: alci's post above about the Air Crash Investigation programme, it's on youtube if you don't have the Sky documentaries package.

The Chris Goodfellow/ fire/ turning towards Langkawi is still most likely for me although I can't reconcile it with the onward navigation of the waypoints.

Is it possible that the route taken after flying across the Malay peninsula is inaccurate (because the primary radar it came from is land - based)?

Eta, the obvious thing would be to have the mobile device being operated on board the plane. To do it remotely, s/he would need quite a sophisticated interface with ground-to-air communications. If they could get that, they wouldn't need a mobile plane hacking app (though they might use it by choice.) Any data system can be hacked.

Thanks Goldie

for goldie.

Sorry. Bloggers have been saying late-generation AWACS planes can control other craft remotely. If they can do this without permission, it means they can hack the other plane's controls. I've not found any confirmation online that this is so. Most of them are made by Boeing.

From Pprune

Quote:
Originally Posted by overthewing
Are Mangosteens in season?
Thought this was a frivolous question, then googled mangosteens. You know what? They're not in season.
They never said in what form - maybe canned? OR was the mangosteen cargo masquerading as something else?

FFS mangosteens are not in season!!!!!

I did post this on the last thread but very late at night and just before someone made an idiot of themselves:

One theory I haven't seen discussed anywhere is an alternative one about why the pings kept on pinging after 8 hours.

Mine is that when the plane crashed into the sea, the tailfin (with the pinger and black box in it) broke off and floated for a period of time and then sank more than a mile under water. The Air France tailfin floated for a while and was recovered whilst still on the surface of the ocean. It would explain why the pings still kept coming after a crash which was fatal to all on board (and all mobile phones submerged and useless).

Goldie - is this possible?

Quick Guardian update:

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/18/mh370-missing-plane-search-live

Goldie is this true? I thought they survived longer than this:

'ABC News points out that the MH370 “black box” already would have lost a third of its battery life of 30 days since the plane vanished.

Aviation writer Stephen Trimble argued in Comment Is Free that the airline industry desperately needs an alternative to black boxes:

But even a little data is better than almost none, which the disappearance of flight 370 makes clear. It should be rather straightforward to install a processor connected to the black box that can select a subset of the most relevant data. A recent patent application filed by Boeing describes such a system, which specifies a limited data set including the precise location of the aircraft and the flight control inputs by the pilot or the automation system.

There will be costs to mandating such a system, but the benefits are clear. Multi-national search and recovery teams involving a fleet of ships and search aircraft should no longer be necessary. Critical safety data could provide clues of system or structural failures much faster, making the entire air transport system safer.'

'A search of computers belonging to the MH370 pilot and co-pilot has turned up nothing suspicious, CNN cites unnamed US officials as saying.'

'You may have seen reports that rocker Courtney Love, apparently a reddit fan, has proposed a possible crash site for MH370. Be apprised that Love’s solution, while having attracted wide interest, is sketchy in the extreme.'

And finally a bit gossipy but interesting:

'Airline industry professionals convening for an annual conference in San Diego this week are trading speculation on what happened to MH370, Reuters reports:

Despite the lack of new information, flight MH370 was at the top of the agenda on the street, at the pubs and in private meetings this week at the International Society of Transport Air Trading in San Diego, the annual gathering of 1,600 airplane makers, buyers and lessors.

“The people that I deal with are looking at this with great concern - it appears considerable efforts may have gone into cloaking the aircraft,” said Robert Agnew, chief executive of aviation consultant Morten Beyer & Agnew, referring to reports that the plane’s primary means of communicating with air traffic control were intentionally disabled.

“We are speculating on what was actually done in the cockpit. If this is a planned terrorist activity, could others know the process and copy it?,” he asked.'

hands phone back to DH

Could the plane have travelled in the same airspace as another plane (ie, shadowed it) and therefore looked like one plane on all of the radars?

I think black box locators have a minimum of 30 days battery so could last longer (the one on the Air France crash was still going 2 years later)

And glad to have you back with us Goldie