Missing Malaysia Air plane MH370 - Part 3

[KenAdams]

Thread 1

Thread 2

Blimey NN you can see why she thinks it's worth looking at.

But how surreal would that be?!

Anyone seen the stuff on MH370 / SQ68 (Singapore Airlines flight to Barcelona)?

Sounds likely and possible.

My money is on the plane being in Western China. The Chinese know about it. And for whatever reason are keeping it quiet.

According to Twitter, the plane's cargo was carrying tons and tons of mangosteens... a crash on land would make an extremely sticky wreckage. If the plane did land safely wherever it was being taken, it would solve the problem of how to feed the hostages I guess.

Red Goldie pretty much debunked that a few hours ago on this thread - it's really interesting so worth scrolling back.

"Re: cyber jacking. I have no aviation knowledge but I assume from other skills that if you can make radio communication with the plane and have knowledge of the systems involved and some top hacking skills then it could be possible assuming the plane has full electronic equipment. If some of the kit needs to be manually operated then no."

This partially answers my question I think. I was musing along the libpnes of the trend micro article linked in the second thread where they didn't physically move the ships and planes but adjusted the data to write pwned with their position. So that creates two scenarios...either they remotely controlled the plane or they are messing with the data as to where the plane is and everyone is searching in the wrong place based on the messed around with data?

Just random (and again, stupid probably!) thoughts.

@Redtoothbrush, see my link upthread (middayish) where I posted the link to the Keith Ledgerwood blog

For us conspiracy theorists:

Plane hacking app launched at conference.

FAA says it wouldn't work in RL.

The bug needs to get into the aircraft's data system. It could be pre-loaded, maybe in something low-security like an advertisement or the seatbelt signs, then controlled using the app. The operator's device would need radio contact with the plane's systems, so s/he must either be on the plane or have an incredibly sophisticated interface with ground-to-air communications (and if they can get that, they're already in pole position so little need for Android hacking apps.) As both the inventor and the FAA pointed out, human pilots could override any programmed actions taken by the plane. So at some point, the pilots have to be de-commissioned without the cabin crew knowing.

I've been favouring the 'pilot goes loopy, then both of them die' theory for 24 hours now - the longest any of them have held! It's very sad. Some things are.

they are messing with the data as to where the plane is - This has crossed my mind several times, too. I have assumed that many data sources are now being cross-referenced, so deliberately generated anomalies would have been discovered. But that's not necessarily true. It would be a good way to steal the plane: old-fashioned piracy, then falsify the locator signals.

But I still can't think of a good reason to go to that much trouble, except robbery. And I can't think what a public passenger craft might be carrying, that would upset so many nations as much as this has.

I read the earlier threads lessons and I understand about the cargo being crushed etc. but that wasn't my question.

Crushed or otherwise gold is valuable. Who does it belong to? If it falls out the sky and lands in your country is it finders keepers? That's my question.

Goldie keeps debunking things only to find out thats what happened later... sorry, but whilst I respect what she is saying I also think that she's not Queen of All Knowledge. I don't know why everyone is accepting what she says as unquestionable tbh. The only reason I can see for that is they don't know how to challenge / question the 'expert'.

@Outraged, no, it still belongs to the original owner. When that cargo ship broke up off the coast of Cornwall about 5 yrs ago and reports of motorbikes washing up on the beach, it was very much stealing to go down and collect them.

Garlic, glad I am not the only one thinking it. And re the anomalies I guess they could adjust all the data but how would they know every possible system that could identify them? That would be dozens of systems that needed to be hacked. A lot of work. Like you say, what is their motive?

IRL, I deal with a lot of complex situations with multiple factions of folk (and I'm sure most of you guys do too!). When it comes to a very difficult situation or mystery and it's a toss up between cock up or conspiracy, I almost always assume cock up. That has bitten me on the arse once or twice.

I'd assumed with this until Saturday that we were looking at a catastrophic accident, until the flight data was released which seemed to show that the co-pilot said 'all right, good night', after the transponder was switched off, and we have the five pings. Conspiracy at this point looking more likely.

Now we hear the transponder could have been switched off after that transmission. Still conspiracy? Maybe. The two things which I think fit all the facts and haven't yet been debunked are:

1. The data releases aren't accurate, or at least the interim conclusions reached (such as the more outlandish flying at 5,000ft for hours) aren't. Thus a technical problem such as fire, plane turned back to try and re-reach KL, ditched in Malacca Straits. Admittedly this is pretty unlikely.

1. Hijackers overwhelm the pilots (maybe one of whom was helping, but that is unproven), there's a struggle, pilots manage to regain control and ditch plane in the sea in order to prevent the greater tragedy.

FWIW I genuinely don't believe we will now ever know what happened - I think the plane will be on the floor of the Indian ocean and given the needle in a haystack nature of any search, won't be found. So a mixture of conspiracy and cock up, and some incredibly brave behaviour on the part of the pilots.

The chances of this plane turning up on a remote airstrip have to be tiny.

There were rumours that Ukraine's gold - either their remaining reserves, or the reserves stolen by deposed president Viktor Yanukovych - might have been on the plane. I can't see the government sending its economic security abroad in suitcases and, frankly, it would be weird of Yanukovych to do that. AFAIK there's never been any actual evidence that he, or his loot, had anything at all to do with MH370.

Outraged I'm pretty sure it would be finders keepers after a certain period of time, as shipwrecks are, but if found quickly will almost certainly be repatriated to the owners.

And Red yes I understand. But I've also been having a look at a lot more original source material than just Goldie's postings and afaik everything she's said so far is verifiable and accurate. And more conservative than some of the tinhattish commentators out there. Occam's Razor and all that.

So if it has crashed on land, it could be in the interests of the country where it's landed to hope it remains undiscovered? Would anyone risk that?

Red I think that's very unlikely. I am sure most superpowers in the world have trained very powerful satellites at the land corridors to see if this has happened - same scenario with a 'safe' landing, too. I reread some of the earlier posts about this and a PP talked about a ship which had wrecked with motorbikes washing up in Cornwall many months after, and those trying to salvage the contents were told in no uncertain terms that this would be treated as theft.

There's been no reporting on the gold theory on any reliable/respectable news media that I know of, just on forums like this and PPRuNe.

Nancy yes I just looked now...thanks... here is an interesting comparison shot of what Courtney saw and the plane itself.

One theory I haven't seen discussed anywhere is an alternative one about why the pings kept on pinging after 8 hours.

Mine is that when the plane crashed into the sea, the tailfin (with the pinger and black box in it) broke off and floated for a period of time and then sank more than a mile under water. The Air France tailfin floated for a while and was recovered whilst still on the surface of the ocean. It would explain why the pings still kept coming after a crash which was fatal to all on board (and all mobile phones submerged and useless).

Would love to hear if this supposition isn't possible.

I think it's very unlikely to have significant amounts of gold in there, just wondering what would happen.

IIRC the motorbikes washed up days later, not months. Also obviously much easier to trace than gold which can be melted down etc. Not to mention the difference between some local people grabbing a motorbike from the beach and a rogue government having billions of dollars falling into their country. I don't think they're comparable tbh.

It would be great if Courtney Love solved it!!

It's giving me the heebie jeebies.

Can they not tell the altitude from the pings? I thought that was where they were getting the altitude figures from?

According to a tweet the image she has posted was taken in 2011.

angela no....its from Tomnod....current satellite images