Missing Malaysia Air plane MH370 - Part 3

[KenAdams]

Thread 1

Thread 2

The transponder and the ACARS are integral to the airplane and draw power from the airplane (hence circuit breakers); the black box is battery powered and is I think titanium cased and concrete covered. So it's very different. Also I don't think it's accessible from an intact plane in the same way.

My preferred option is a hijack (pilot or passenger) that went wrong/pilots fought back and it crashed.

It looks the most logical now, JKS.

I think if there was guidance to be wary of terrorism in certain countries that would be an acknowledgement of a terrorist act, which obviously is currently just speculation.

The 'limbo' status and the implications are very interesting, at the same time as being heartbreaking for all involved.

... although, why the extended flight time? Unless everyone on the plane was already dead ... argh! Glad I'm not on one of the investigative teams (to be fair, they probably are, too!)

I am so sad for all the families, if hypoxia was used to get rid of all the passengers (heaven forbid) does anybody know if it is just like falling asleep or is it much longer and painful than that?

I am still hoping against hope that they are found alive

A black box can't be turned off. It runs automatically for as long as it's getting electrical power.

I'm not sure about a cyber-hijack. Most large/new aircraft have a computer-controlled flight management system (FMS), as well as an autopilot system. I know the autopilot can be switched off, but I'd guess that the FMS is similar to the black boxes in that they're always on for as long as they've got power. But I can't see how the FMS could be controlled at a distance - presumably they don't have a wireless receiver.

Must add - I am wishing for some film-esque story which involves all passengers being kept alive and returning home safely.

Just cant see it happening though.

Maybe a pilot was tied up, they flew on for hours, he escaped, tussled & crashed it knowing the alternative was many more lives (and maybe passengers dead already).

In the SilkAir crash in '97 where the pilot committed suicide, he switched the blackboxes off before putting the plane into a plunge.

"As someone who, I'm really embarassed to admit, got A*s in Science at GCSE but never even really understood how planes stayed up in terms of lift until someone explained it properly to her on her PGCE primary course can I just say - Goldie - you are sexy as fuck in terms of what you know.

That is all."

Oo-er. Not sure how to respond to that. Thanks. I'm humbled! Never really thought of myself as sexy as fuck because I know about bits of flying tin tho.

Welcome back Goldie!

Goldieeeeee!! You're back! hands

Hi Goldie - hope you've had a good day (and that you're sorted stuff out with your sis!). Ready for the night shift now, with all of our questions?!!!

Sorry ladies, there have been, like, 500 posts since I last checked in. I simply can't keep up and answer all the questions that came my way. Ac ouple of bits:

"I know the whole argument about the mobile phones ringing was 'explained' but it only explains it if the plane has gone into the ocean. If the plane landed but all the passengers either had their phones taken off them or were already killed, then they would still ring. I don't know if social networks work the same as mobile networks, but at least one passenger was still shown as logged on to their social media. Surely if the phone was in the sea, this couldn't happen?"

I see what you’re getting at. If the plane had landed, were the phones connecting to a cell tower that was within reach.

Put yourself in the place of a passenger. If the plane has been hijacked by a group (it’d be hard to do this on your own unless you’re the pilot), that group is sophisticated enough to evade security, hijack the plane and divert it to where they want to go, then land it and get it on the ground. Do you honestly believe that they would let you keep your mobile? What would be the consequence for you if they caught you answering a call, do you think?

Nextly (I made that word up) – if the phones all connected to a cellphone mast, the authorities would very clearly know which mast it was (that’s how the ‘find my iPhone’ tech works – by id’ing the nearest three cellphone masts). The mast would presumably also be quite close to an at least 6000 foot runway that the 777 had just landed on. There wouldn’t be a mystery. Everyone would, by now, know where the aeroplane was and it would all be over. It’d be all over CNN.

So the only logical conclusion is that the phones were not near a mast, were not receiving a signal and didn’t, in fact, ring. Unbelievable as it may seem, mobile phones can’t get coverage on the entire face of the planet and up to the edge of space. There are some areas (most, actually) where you don’t get a signal.

What signal do you think social networks use, btw? Just curious.

"A black box can't be turned off. It runs automatically for as long as it's getting electrical power."

If you pull the circuit breaker it will stop recording.

Thoughts on cyber hacking Goldie?
I thought it had been ruled out but apparently not.

Does anyone know about why they're searching the whole of those arcs? Don't the final pings mean that the plane must have landed or crashed within half an hour of the outer edge of one of the arcs?

Hi Goldie

I know you are catching up with loads of posts but if the black box stops recording because of pulling a circuit breaker, is its locator beacon still on?

I'm sure I read someone asking about cockpit access yonks back and quoting the Mozambique 737 where th co-pilot had gone for a pee?

As I understand it, while he was gone the pilot put the aircraft into a dive. The CVR recorded knocking on the door but the Post on MN said it was the co-pilot. That's not at all certain. There was knocking but they don't know that it was the co-pilot. Additionally, with the aircraft in an accelerating dive, it would be very hard to walk forward to the cockpit. There's no guarantee at all that it was the co-pilot but it might have been.

Next time you board a flight, look at the cockpit door. It has a small pin pad. It's that that controls the lock (it's a magnetic mechanism). The pilot and co-pilot know the access code. Nobody else on the flight should - including cabin crew. The code can't be changed in-flight from the cockpit. The two flight crew should always be able to get back into the cockpit.

Can't say more than that - I've only said what you'll find in the public domain.

"Thoughts on cyber hacking Goldie?"

Can't really say.

goldie :)

Solomon, the arcs are from a satellite which can tell how far away from it the pings are ie on a circle at which the point below the satellite on earth is the centre. Then the circle overlaps with the flying range of the plane from the last radar to give rise to the arcs (as much of the circle, although equidistant as the arcs from the centre point, is outside of the flying range)

"Does anyone know about why they're searching the whole of those arcs? Don't the final pings mean that the plane must have landed or crashed within half an hour of the outer edge of one of the arcs?"

No. the whole arc is equidistant from the position of the satellite that detected the ping. Get a pair of compasses, a pencil and a bit of paper. Draw an arc. The point of the compass is the satellite (I'm simplifying becaus eit's really in 3 dimensions). If only one satellite is detecting the 'ping', you only know that the 'ping' is on the arc. You don't know where. If a second satellite sees the 'ping', you have more info (you can see the direction of movement). If a third satellite sees the 'ping', you can find exactly where the transmitter is.

"I know you are catching up with loads of posts but if the black box stops recording because of pulling a circuit breaker, is its locator beacon still on?"

The beacon is battery powered, independent of the aircraft power supply (other than the aircraft's electrical system keeps the battery charged)

"Goldieeeeee!! You're back!"

Oooh! Wine! Is it a St Emilion or a Merlot?

the black box can be disabled in-flight though.

In the silkair crash in 1997 the black box was first disabled and then the flight data recorder before the pilot nose-dived the plane into the river.

So if the transponders etc were disabled then it's entirely plausible that the black box etc might have been too.