Missing MH370 thread cont...

[Pennies]

Old thread here

New thread here.

So right panda, unbearable.

"goldie do you mind me asking if you are a pilot?"

No, I work at an aircraft manufacturer and I have a degree in Aeronautical Engineering.

"If the circuit breaker for the cockpit voice recorder was pulled to preserve the last two hours would that disable the gps for the black box too?"

Not sure I get what you mean? The CVR doesn't have a GPS, just a locator beacon that is battery powered and independent from the circuit breaker.

Have been up the Petronas Towers. They're amazing.

As you were...

A degree in aeronautical engineering

What's the chances that the original thoughts of what happened were true and they just couldn't find the wreckage? So there was mechanical failure and the plane is in the ocean but they could not find it.
Could the pings be debris floating away?

Ahh ok, thankyou, i have misread then.

I was thinking the black box had gps which was still trackable from the ocean bed.

Thankyou for clarifying.

"clam to save Goldie (!) wifi is available on some flights currently,"

Thanks lessons. Yes, some flights have wifi available, particularly in the US on transcontinental flights. It's not really available on long-haul yet. Using e-mail through wifi is a different proposition to using a phone.

"I'm sure I've flown on an Etihad flight where one side of the in flight entertainment handset controlled the tv/games and the other was a phone and credit card swipe."

Yes, but the telephone system you swipe to use on the flight uses teh aircraft's satellite communications system, we know it was turned off on MH370. That's also why it's so bloody expensive touse btw - you need a fecking mortgage to use those things.

Surely they will never release any of the details of the cargo. If it was gold say it would inspire hundreds of treasure hunters all getting in the way.

I am actually quite shocked by the number of people that believe that it's possible to make a phone call from anywhere and are perplexed when they find out that they can't and that in the middle of an ocean, their mobiles won't work.

So the black box emits a signal, but it would only travel a certain distance? Is that correct?

If that's the case, is it possible that they would never find it if it was in a really deep part of the ocean? Or could it not work if it was destroyed in a crash?

In the last thread I said I have been convinced from the start it was a deliberate high jacking just because there seemed too many coincidences. And I was thinking terrorists/pilots could have landed it somewhere, but after reading PandaFeets link, it's making me think that there's a good chance it's in the Indian Ocean if they are having this much trouble to find it.

It seems so infeasible that it could have gone over land and not have been picked up by anything, although I have no idea how good every other countries military's radars are?

I just can't believe that if it did land/crash somewhere on land that they haven't found anything at all yet. Unless of they are not revealing everything they know

Earlybird, to elaborate on the other answers - black boxes don't have GPS. GPS doesn't work underwater. They have a bleeper that emits a radio signal. The signal travels for about a mile in deep water. That's not very far in the Indian Ocean. The average depth of the Indian Ocean is 2 miles, meaning the signal may not reach the water's surface. Had it fallen down a crevasse in the sea bed, its signal wouldn't even reach the ocean floor. They're only guaranteed to transmit for 30 days, but are deemed reliable for 60 days. The Air France box was still bleeping after two years. That plane went down in the Atlantic, which is about 1 mile deep.

"It was the Blackbird Goldie not the Stealth. It's a fascinating aircraft. Leaked fuel like a sieve when not airborne!"

Have you ever seen one on the ground? They're astounding - and 50 years old. The skin is corrugated when it's on the ground, with gaps in it (hence those leaks). When it's in flight at Mach 3 the corrugations flatten out due to heat expansion and fill the gaps. It's perfectly smooth.

Sorry - can't help but marvel at the miracle but it's off topic.

If it wasn't picked up on radar and crashed somewhere Uninhabited, I think it would be quite hard to find on land in such a large search area.

"I am actually quite shocked by the number of people that believe that it's possible to make a phone call from anywhere and are perplexed when they find out that they can't and that in the middle of an ocean, their mobiles won't work."

Me too. Especially as there are plenty of mobile 'dead zones' around (my office for one). Why on earth would you expect a mobile to work over an ocean?!

"Have been up the Petronas Towers. They're amazing."

^YY - they're stunning.

... or an animal could have swallowed it, and be swimming around with a movable bleep!

"I was thinking the black box had gps which was still trackable from the ocean bed. "

GPS in any case has to have a clear line of sight to at least three satellites, which it couldn't get underwater.

"So the black box emits a signal, but it would only travel a certain distance? Is that correct? "

Yes

"If that's the case, is it possible that they would never find it if it was in a really deep part of the ocean? Or could it not work if it was destroyed in a crash?"

Yes, they might never find it. The minimum requirement is that they transmit for 30 days. They mostly transmit for a lot longer than that. It's extremely, extremely unlikely that the CVR or DFDR would be destroyed in the crash. They are, quite literally, bombproof.

"A degree in aeronautical engineering "

It's not rocket science. Oh, wait...

Sorry - in-joke!

Yes, Garth, it's as surprising that people can't imagine vast wastelands as that they assume you can make a mobile phone call anywhere! Have a look on Google Earth, people - if the plane went North, it could be in the area extending from Upper Mongolia to the Russian steppes. If it went south, there are tremendous tracts of dense jungle.

Do people know we haven't even mapped all of the land on Earth yet?! And the oceans are utter mysteries, apart from the bits where pipelines go.

True GarthsUncle. Sometimes I forget how big the world actually is!

It just makes me wonder how much airspace over land actually isn't monitored at all, and what countries they are, and what the chances are it would have gone somewhere like that? I guess if it was that well planned, they might know which way to go where it wouldn't be seen...?

It just seems to me that the Indian Ocean is looking more likely now

"... or an animal could have swallowed it, and be swimming around with a movable bleep!"

It'd have serious gut ache! Titanium case with what's effectively concrete and a shock-proof core.

Garlic it makes me wonder how, if the crash in Indian ocean scenario is true (and possibly after brave action by the pilot(s) to prevent an even more terrible scenario) the BB will/can be recovered. According to this list a large number of countries have operational sub fleets which could potentially pick up a signal, but probably only Australia, France, Germany, Japan, Russia, China, US and UK have fleets which could be utilised in this way. I don't work in defence so this is wild surmise only! Of those countries, a number have had swingeing defence budget cuts in recent years or are deployed on other, more relevant to the country, missions. My best guess is that if it is on the floor of the Indian ocean, the US might at some point pick up a signal (and therefore locate the wreckage). But even that is highly unlikely given the size of ocean floor to cover.

I am actually quite shocked by the number of people that believe that it's possible to make a phone call from anywhere and are perplexed when they find out that they can't and that in the middle of an ocean, their mobiles won't work.

I live in London and sometimes can't get a signal. I would be more surprised if I could get a signal over the ocean.,

To be honest Garlic, although I did sound dense before saying that I can't believe they haven't found it on land (!) what I meant is that's know it's vast, but it makes me wonder how much airspace over land isn't monitored? As I would assumed it was a lot, although maybe I'm wrong!

That's why my thoughts on what happened keep steering towards the ocean now