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Why are so many Mothers of children with invisable medical conditions getting accused of Munchausens by Proxy/FII?

156 replies

BuildUpMyFence · 08/02/2014 23:31

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2554867/The-schools-spy-Munchausen-Mums-Teachers-accuse-lying-childrens-autism-attention.html

What is going on in child protection training that so many Professionals are so obsessed with this type of witch hunt?

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WestmorlandSausage · 09/02/2014 00:41

just a short post about your or others experiences with links to evidence/ research would be fine.

We are VERY interested in evidence - we just can't be the experts on everything and need some help sometimes from people who are willing to offer it.

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BuildUpMyFence · 09/02/2014 01:05

If you can copy and paste this over?

I am going to find some links and research on it. There is quite a bit on the EDSUK and HMSA websites available for all to see.

I have a concern around the subject of rare genetic connective tissue disorders such as Ehlers Danlos Syndrome and the high levels of non accident injury and FII accusations made against parents with children of this condition. A ruling was made last year and published in Family law week I believe, regarding non accidental injury and EDS. Having spoken in large group settings organised at the Ehlers Danlos Support UK conferences, there seems to be a large number of Mothers who also have the same condition of FII. The numbers of parents reported to social services, that have gone on to be seen one particular Dr are out of proportion for one small group of the population, the last quote was 50-60%. I can provide contact details for this Dr if you want to verify the information. There is I gather debate if FII even exists, or if the symptoms are of a personality disorder. I am sure that there will be in the EDS community the same levels of FII/personality disorders as there is in the rest of the population.

So why do I think there are so many reports of this by professionals to social services?

Well there is a high proportion of Autistic diagnosis's in the community apparently.

There have also been brain scans showing that the Amagadala works differently in hypermobile people, where as someone with antisocial personality disorder would have not much going on we seem to have far too much going on here.

We have issues with pain, and Anesthetic not working.

There is still so much to be found out, there is some interesting work done by Dr Driscoll, who feels here Driscoll theory has been proven. She has theories about mast cells and pressure levels in the brains of EDS people.

The parents will have not had their medical needs met and once they understand what has happened they will be keen for the children not to suffer also as they have. When you discover the complexity of what has been going on in your bodies and written off for so long, you go through all the stages of grief for yourself and for your children.

There are often undiagnosed secondary issues, for example it was only in November 2013 there was a proven link between sleep apnoea and EDS. There are complex GI issues and Neurological /cardiac issues from our autonomic system not functioning properly. These will interfere with the cognative ability of the parents and children. They will make them appear to have a primary mental health issue which is a secondary mental health condition, heal the physical cause and they will not have anxiety and depression. We look like there is nothing wrong with us, we don't complain and we get on with things.

We are not helped by the fact there are two names for what is through to be the same condition, some Dr's seem to have different idea's and the two charities not working together.

Right now I understand the department of Health, NHS national genetic EDS clinic think EDS and HMS (Hypermobility Syndrome) are to be treated as the same condition along with EDSUK, yet some other high profile NHS hospitals along with HMSA have other ideas.


Here are some links

www.hypermobility.org
www.ehlers-danlos.org

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CouthyMow · 09/02/2014 01:08

It's NOT a fucking daily mail thing. Just checkout the SN boards on here!! I've been accused of FII (Fabricated or Induced Illness, social services 'new' name for Munchausen's) because of my DS3's MEDICALLY PROVEN allergies.

It IS overused by SS, usually as a last resort to avoid paying out for support for families with DC's with disabilities. The threat of an FII investigation is enough to get most parents to stop asking for help...

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CouthyMow · 09/02/2014 01:10

And Ehlers-Danloss, like my 3/4 of my DC's have got AND I've got, is another one that often has accusations of FII/ Munchasen's levelled at the parents too. Multiple dislocations...constant pain...multiple bruises and swellings from falls and dislocations...all looks like abuse, but are actually clinical symptoms of this genetic condition.

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BuildUpMyFence · 09/02/2014 01:13

1 in 10 with EDS have excretory evacuation disorder. That is blamed on Mum too. Bowel dismotility can occur to with EDS, you can be affected mouth to anus. They only found out about these things a few years ago.

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CouthyMow · 09/02/2014 01:16

Thing is, often certain NHS areas REFUSE to test for EDS despite a diagnosis of severe HMS with other associated problems that come along with EDS such as bowel issues, allergies, respiratory issues, neuro issues...yet because it "won't change their treatment plan", they refuse to diagnose OR refer you on to those consultants that can or will, so your child can almost definitely HAVE EDS whilst being dxd with "severe HMS" which is so severe, and has such multi-systemic involvement, that it can be nothing BUT EDS IYSWIM.

(Personal story...)

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CouthyMow · 09/02/2014 01:18

Buildupmyfence - 10yo DS2, a 9/9 on the Beighton scale, has been on Movicol for 5 years non stop due to poor bowel motility. Still can't get an EDS dx for him, despite it being obvious.

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BuildUpMyFence · 09/02/2014 01:22

There is no cure for EDS. They can't give drugs or anything.

There are treatments for the secondary issues they can give for the GI and neuro issues, all very costly and massive waiting lists.

A lot of people with EDS have Chairi where the brain collapses into the spine. I don't feel I can mention this yet we have the symptoms, unstable necks and headaches etc. We have the flushing that goes with mast cells again I wont' even ask to be looked at until my oldest child is an adult incase of reprisals, then I will ask to have it looked into.

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BuildUpMyFence · 09/02/2014 01:23

They changed the NHS guidelines as the GP to refer to Dr Rawatt.

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BuildUpMyFence · 09/02/2014 01:24

*ask

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CouthyMow · 09/02/2014 01:24

DS2 was so severely affected by 'HMS' EDS that he was unable to suckle until 3mo, I had to express and syringe feed him. He did not sit up until 2y+, crawl until 2y7mo, took his first step at 3y7mo. He was unable to talk until he said his first word at 3y6mo. He was in a wheelchair until he was over 5, and he's looking to be heading that way again.

He is now 10, on daily painkillers, Physio 3 times a day, has 6 week blocks of Physio, hydro then Physio gym. Has kyphosis because his back muscles cannot support his spine, has to have orthotic boots AND orthotic inserts, has constant dislocations, has had plantar fasciitis since he started walking, it will be lifelong. Has to have feet massaged before he can get out of bed...

Yet SS have previously accused me of FII because the only dx my PCT will give is HMS, despite a letter I have admitting that he HAS got a 99% likelihood of having EDS but that they won't test or refer as it won't change his treatment...

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BuildUpMyFence · 09/02/2014 01:26

orthotics help the feet and align you so much better, the nhs ones were rubbish again like everything I had to go private for us.

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CouthyMow · 09/02/2014 01:26

I hadn't heard about the link to chiari - can you give me some info on EDS support? It would be nice, after 10 years of dealing with Ds2, and 32 years if dealing with my own issues, to have some support. Tried HMSA before, but found that DS2 was too severe, and they didn't seem to 'get' the issues I've been facing...

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BuildUpMyFence · 09/02/2014 01:28

Don't look it is too depressing, it made me want to get sick.

HMSA have a lot of issues with EDSUK, I am ashamed on their behalf right now to read some of their fb posts. HMSA and EDSUK both have really good information on their sites.

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BuildUpMyFence · 09/02/2014 01:30

They won't check you out for Chairi that requires a seated MRI, it is too many £££ they don't want to know we have these things it is too expensive to test and treat us.

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CouthyMow · 09/02/2014 01:35

What do you get? DS2 has Piedro's, and the inserts are specially made for him. He puts his feet in a box of foam?!

Tbh, the orthotics dept is the only part of the NHS that has actually 'worked' for us. Our orthotist is excellent and has been doing the job forever!

He's had Piedro's since he was 7mo, with a gap of two years between 7yo and 9yo. The inserts he got when he was re referred at 9yo.

FII is a very insidious thing, and it is DEFINITELY used as a 'threat' by SS when a Parent is demanding more help for their DC's. At least, that's MY repeated experiences.

Left alone as soon as I stop asking for them to provide help and support, usually it's the health service referring as I'm unhappy with something, as the more 'expensive' therapy option gives better results and they are only offering a less effective therapy that doesn't have such good clinical results, I've complained on the grounds that the better therapy has been shown to be more effective, so the HCP refers to SS, to get me to back off.

And it has the intended effect. Which means that your child never gets the more expensive therapy that gives better clinical results, instead our DC's are left to suffer.

Because when faced with the option of pushing a complaint about health services but losing your DC's, or giving up and accepting a crappier therapy but keeping your DC's, what are you going to choose?!

Not all of us with EDS have the money to go private. I certainly don't.

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CouthyMow · 09/02/2014 01:37

I might get away with the seated MRI - it might be easier to get as I have unclassified seizures - atypical epileptic seizures. far more like the faints you get with POTS, but what do I know...

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BuildUpMyFence · 09/02/2014 01:40

Do you want to say what the trust and LA are doing this?

I don't either, I don't go to the hairdressers, I don't go on day trips, I don't get new clothes to pay for the private stuff. If I hadn't my child would be treated for a primary mental health condition and be fucked around with being told it was all in her head, and have a whole load of physical conditions not treated.

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BuildUpMyFence · 09/02/2014 01:41

Well try then, it has to be seated to show the brain slipping down the spine, you need to go to Colindale I think, I never tried for one too scared.

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BuildUpMyFence · 09/02/2014 01:44

Don't look if a sensitive nature

www.chiari.org.uk/index.htm

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CouthyMow · 09/02/2014 01:45

Buildup - it's North Essex. And I wouldn't be able to 'go without' those things to go private - I go without those things to EAT already. I'm a disabled Carer for 4 DC's all of whom have disabilities themselves, but the only one of us currently getting DLA is DS3.

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BuildUpMyFence · 09/02/2014 01:46

My oldest has every symptom going for that, and because of the fucked up CP in this country right now I am too scared to ask anyone to look into it for her, I have to wait until my youngest child is older before I can address this for her.

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BuildUpMyFence · 09/02/2014 01:48

oh no, so sorry, not surprised by any of that either.

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CouthyMow · 09/02/2014 01:51

We are getting a bit further, as we have seen a Rheumy Physio for the first time for DS2. Still need to find a way to get him looked at as a whole person rather than a set of lungs by one consultant, a set of crap muscles by the Physio, a set of dodgy Bowels that aren't being treated with anything other than Movicol which is no longer working effectively, the kyphosis being treated by another consultant, his feet being seen by the orthotist...

It feels like the NHS would be happier if I could take him to pieces and just leave the correct pieces of him in each consultant / HCP's office.

They all wish to ignore the fact that these issues affect a WHOLE PERSON, not just bits and pieces of him.

And when you TRY to get things a bit more joined up, you get accused of FII, yet again...

It's not far off now, as I'm around 9 months into fighting for help for him again...so in around 3 months, if I don't back off, I'll have the accusations again. It takes around a year, then it goes full circle and you HAVE to back off so that you don't get your DC's taken away...

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BuildUpMyFence · 09/02/2014 01:54

www.gov.uk/government/publications/provider-guidance-esf-for-families-with-multiple-problems

I have been sent this link, hopefully someone can make sense of it and we can get some help from this change of policy.

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