So the verdict is apparently due in the Meredith Kercher murder trial today

[PortofinoRevisited]

BBC Link

The appeal after the overturned convictions. I hope this can all be brought to a close now.

Birds, I know that the Florence report hasn't been published and won't be for some time. But, if AK's DNA had been found at the crime scene, that information would have come out by now.

Banished, that's what I struggle with too...
Even with the bra clasp I would have thought there would have clear signs of them in the room, or that a clean up would be detectable. I'm not clear if it's agreed that the scene was cleaned up - but I think not.

Why do you doubt that was RS's dna on the bra strap banished? If it is analysed and is a match for dna, how can it be down to belief? Does it not become a fact. I don't mean the speculation about how could somebody have done this or that. Just a scientific match.

It may not be regarded as safe but then again it may be, but I guess it'll be in the report.

The DNA on the bra clasp "evidence" is surly inadmissible?

The clasp was only found 6 weeks after the murder. In that time numerous people and been in and out of the room. There's even a video of the forensic police finding it, handing it around, filming it, looking at it with torches then dropping it on the floor! They should have put it straight into a sealed evidence bag.

murderofmeredithkercher.com/the-bra-clasp

It laughable that it could be used as evidence.

The time of death can be fairly accurately estimated by the fact that none of her meal had left her stomach and passed into the duodenum. The pro-guilt claim that this isn't an accurate way to determine time of death - however, this is because you do not usually know exactly what time the last meal was. In this case there were multiple witnesses that Meredith started eating around 6pm. 4-hours would be the absoulte limit, but 3-hours or earlier is the more common time for this to start.

Also from 9:58 there was unusual activity on Merdith's phone - a call to a bank beginning with A and a call to voicemail, which suggests that someone else was in charge of her phone (possibly someone who couldn't read English and was trying to switch off the phone) - at 10:13 the phone received a picture message from a tower that did not usually connect with the cottage, but would have connected with where the phone was found the next day and would imply that the phone was now outside of the cottage.

Meredith also didn't engage in any of her usual activity when she got home that night. She sent no texts, didn't call her mum back, didn't take her clothes out of the washing machine, didn't take off her jacket, didn't open her computer and send e-mails - all indicating she was likely killed shortly after returning home

If they start watching a film at 9:26, which runs until 9:46, it really doesn't give them much time to fit everything in - and seems to strongly suggest to me at least reasonable doubt.

Crossed lines banished. I was talking about RS's dna on the bra strap.

Flora, I'm curious about the 9.26 time. Is it not a case the the screen saver automatically come on when there is a lapse in use? I read the last need for human interaction was to turn on a movie which ended around the 9.10 mark and the screen saver came on at this point when the movie ended and there was a lapse in time. That was the screen saver incident without a need for human control.

In any event isn't it only 10 minutes away? Did the police/ medical investigation say the murder was specifically or most likely between 9 and 10?

Birds, I agree with Excuse Typos, the bra clasp is so likely to have been contaminated, that any DNA on it, cannot be regarded as significant.

I just can't believe that they can be guilty when RS's DNA and AK's were not detected anywhere else in that room? Yet Guede's was all over the body and room.

The coroner estimated an early time of death - although in the first trial it was eventually pushed back by the prosecution to the totally impossible 11:30 so that it could correspond to the evidence of the heard scream. In this trial it was back to the early time of death again.

The screen saver would come on within an exact time and only once if no human activity - if coming on at other times and more than once, it would indicate human activity. The 9:26 is in Raffaele's appeal documents and was mentioned again in the closing arguments of this appeal.

I agree Banished- there would have to be other DNA in the bedroom or on their clothes. There is none.

Apparently delays in dna evidence is not uncommon. RG's dna was collected at the same time. And the cottage was a sealed crime scene.

"The bra clasp was collected on December 18, 2007. Meredith's body was discovered November 2nd and the initial evidence collection at the cottage happened between the night of the 2nd and November 7th.[7] As such the bra clasp was collected 43 days later and this is often cited as grounds for why it should not be considered reliable. Despite its oversight not being a high point in the investigation, DNA evidence is routinely used in American cases months later and in cold cases even decades later: the delay in collection is not in itself a sufficient reason to reject the clasp from consideration.

While supporters of Knox are quick to point out the 43-day delay they are at a loss to explain why that matters: Two items with Guede profiles, the purse and the sweatshirt, were also collected on this second pass. DNA does not spontaneously appear and the cottage was a sealed crime scene. As long as the cottage remained closed and more specifically as long as Raffaele Sollecito did not enter Meredith's room the bra clasp could remain there uncollected for any length of time and Sollecito's DNA profile would never magically appear on it. While the passage of enough time might lead to a degradation of DNA no amount of time will ever spontaneously create DNA. "

Birds- the video shows the clasp being past around 3 different people and being dropped on the floor. It's not just a matter of the time delay.

Flora, in this trial, are you referring to the Florence trial? And what time did they estimate the death to be between?

I wonder if the the claim in RS's appeal submission about the 9.26 activity verified anywhere else?

TMI, but I recently had nausea and a very expensive gourmet pie I had eaten at least 6 hours beforehand reappeared. I never will go to that deli again. Maybe I'm not normal!

There is quite a bit of evidence that the cottage wasn't a closed crime scene - and the bra clasp was found somewhere different than where it was left and then past around multiple people who hadn't changed gloves. The profiles of three other unknown people were also on the clasp.

As Raffaele had been at the cottage a number of times, it is not hard to see that there is a possibility of contamination. He had even tried to break down the door just yards away.

Yes, the 9:26 film was discussed in the closing arguments of the Florence Trial - and is reported widely and discussed widely

The prosecutor Crini argued that he thought that either time of death was possible, but that early was more likely - they never seem to base this on the science though and just seem to make-up whatever they want

I think they are guilty of lying and taking part in some form
That does not necessarily mean they are guilty of, or took part, in the murder

Whatever, they have not helped solve what happened to the poor girl and her family

TMI, but I recently had nausea and a very expensive gourmet pie I had eaten at least 6 hours beforehand reappeared. I never will go to that deli again. Maybe I'm not normal! - some chyme would have passed into the duodenum long before this though, unlesss you're a medical wonder or have some very weird gastric pathology

We're talking about the time the first bit of chyme passes into the duodenum and not the time for the stomach to completely empty

So you believe they are protecting Guede roadwalker? That seems most bizarre to me

No protecting themselves
If they could have done something to help Meredith and didn't then that would've been a serious charge
I think they are now caught up in their lives
I did believe them to be innocent until this thread

They had only known each other a week.

& she had only met RG once, quite briefly, in the basement apartment, along with Meredith.

How the hell would you get involved in a grisly horrible murder like this with people you hardly know?

Also...

AK was supposed to have been caught on CCTV coming back to the cottage at around 9pm, but that turned out to be Meredith.

RG was also caught on CCTV in the vicinity of the cottage that night.

Were AK and/or RS seen too? If not, I wonder why?

AK's original story:

Supposed to be working
Texted by PL not to worry as bar was quiet
Texted back OK, see you later
Turned off phone so PL couldn't get her if he changed his mind
Tucked up for the night with RS for uninterrupted pot smoking & sex

All adds up & makes perfect sense.

The story the police hit on, & bamboozled her into going along with, makes no sense at all (except in their, clearly somewhat twisted, minds)

Complete agree with this article from the guardian
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/31/amanda-knox-raffaele-sollecito-case-harsh-verdict-italian-justice

Me too, Timetoask - I linked to it earlier today.

But apparently, because the writer co-wrote RS's book so is deemed partisan, his opinion is less valid.

I agree too, Timetoask.

Because RG has been convicted of committing the crime with other people and has been given a light sentence for pleading guilty and fast tracking his trial, it is necessary for the Italian authorities to either find the other murderers, or completely reassess his conviction.

The Italian authorities cannot admit that they let RG get away with securing a light sentence by lying about RS and AK. That is why they have been convicted without a shred of real evidence to support their guilt.

IMO, all of the evidence points to RG acting alone and yet he has been given the lightest sentence (16 years) and will be free all too soon. His DNA was found in the room and all over the crime scene. He left his bloody footprints there. He had only once briefly met AK and had never met RS. He has form for burglary and carrying a knife.

Still think there is a reasonable doubt*
(and my DP has pointed out that I am usually GUILTY gavel! )
Hope AK not extradited and RS legs it with a false passport to somewhere with no extradition treaty as there is bugger all chance of a fair appeal.
If I am ever charged with anything btw please will Portofino and Flora come and look at the evidence, i will pay you in chocolate

• not enough DNA evidence. If they are that good at cleaning up bodily fluids they should come round to mine. not enough motive. Sexcrime was police idea steamrollered through irrespective of change in players. timeline dubious police officers corrupt testimony of witness prev used in other cases dodgy

Now i have finished playing detective in a mimsy squad rosemary and thyme stylee - me not you lot - i am off to clean up. I have every possible stain on my floors due to 3 dc who like throwing up on me, having nosebleeds and doing dirty protests. Think I need more than bleach.

If they are found innocent at the final stage in proceedings, what happens to RG's sentence? Has he been found guilty of acting with persons unknown, or with AK and RS specifically?