So the verdict is apparently due in the Meredith Kercher murder trial today

[PortofinoRevisited]

BBC Link

The appeal after the overturned convictions. I hope this can all be brought to a close now.

Was the whole room tested for dna? Are there areas where RG dna should be but isn't? That would be the only way that AK and RS could have removed their dna by also removing some of RG's. If that makes sense.
I am so confused by all of the evidence everthing you read is contradictory. The bloody footprints which were then said to be bleach but then another report said they had to be blood as the time lapse of the luminix being put on the bleach would have evaporated.

The bloody footprints were some random footprints and blobs that you weren't really able to attribute to anyone. They were tested with luminol, which is a presumptive blood test that gives a large amount of false positives. They were subsequently tested with TMB (another presumptive blood test and found to be negative for blood. This would seem to imply that they were most likely not blood. Lots of things test positive with luminol, including some cleaning products, rust, fruit and vegetable juices. The pro-guilt side argue that TMB isn't as sensitive as luminol and it could have been really really dilute blood, but that doesn't seem to be backed up by any evidence and most forensic teams will say that if tested negative for blood with TMB, it was not blood.

This was all found six weeks after the crime and following the the police tracking in and out of the house - and failing to follow any standards.

SpaceIsBig I wasn't meaning you - sorry It just seems a general argument from AK supporters and I don't think that inconsistency helps their case iyswim.

It was the bra that Meredith was wearing when she was murdered and I've never read anything that questioned its ownership (which I thought was odd because surely the obvious argument would be that AK had worn the bra at some point and that's why it had RS' DNA on it?!).
There is DNA in the other rooms that the prosecution argues puts AK at the scene ie mixed AK DNA and Meredith blood/DNA in their flatmate's room where there was the staged/or genuine (depending on your perspective) break-in. What is interesting is that the court reports say the flatmate's DNA wasn't found in her own room but AK and Meredith's was.

AK and Meredith's DNA were both found on the knife. The prosecution argue that the knife (which was found at RS' flat) was one of the weapons used in the attack. When RS was asked to explain how Meredith's DNA came to be on a knife in his flat, he said she was cooking at his flat but it later transpired that Meredith had never been to RS' flat. None of Meredith's DNA was found anywhere else in RS' flat - only on the knife blade which had AK's DNA on the handle.
[Disclaimer - I know nothing about DNA - I am not a scientist or a forensics person so all of the above is just what I have gleaned from court transcripts].

Another point that made me was Rudy's diary mentioned AK must have cleaned the hallway of blood. Yet he 'allegedly' wrote that entry before the police had conducted the luminol tests and discovered traces of blood in the hall. So it appeared as though Rudy knew the hallway was bloody before the police did yet he wasn't the one who cleaned it up.

And the prosecution initially tried to hide that the TMB tests had been done - you just couldn't make this stuff up

Floraclare - yes he did. Then retracted it from what I can gather. A lot of that going on in this case it seems.

Have Knox's lawyers applied to the ECHR? I know they keep claiming it...not sure they have though. I can't see how it would be relevant in this instance.

They've applied to ECHR over the slander charge and the illegal interrogation

They can't apply to ECHR regarding the criminal trial until it is finally confirmed by the supreme court

so they say...I'm not convinced they have

They definitely have - you can see the application online and it was widely reported

www.amandaknox.com/2013/11/25/european-court-of-human-rights/

it was widely reported. I never saw the application. Seems dodgy though. Why file it years after the original conviction in the week when she's found guilty of murder again?

Seems a PR tactic.

I guess whatever she does or says, she's damned in your eyes Nancy66

If you start from a point of guilt, everything they do or say is going to be viewed as guilty behaviour - it's known as confirmation bias

If she smiles she must be guilty, if she cries she's an actress , if she says nothing she has something to hide, if she speaks out it is a just for PR - and on and on and on. That's why it is such a witch trial - I wonder if she floats like a duck

I have become convinced of her guilt. As you are of her innocence.

it's not a witch trial. She's lied, changed her story, framed innocent people and behaved appallingly.

she's also a two times convicted murderer.

" On the autosomal DNA test Stefanoni found the DNA on the bra matched Sollecito on 16 locus-points.[3] That is an exceptionally strong match. In the United Kingdom they only locus-points are used. The CODIS system in the United States maintains a database of only 13 markers and having 10 is considered a match for most purposes.[4]" from link below.

Is it something like a billion of trillion to one odds that it is not RS's dna was on the bra strap. They also say tertiary transfer is highly unlikely. And what people are saying is contamination may just be 'stutters' or glitches (Stutter is a by-product of the amplification of STR loci whereby a minor product one repeat smaller than the primary allele is generated.)

themurderofmeredithkercher.com/The_Bra_Clasp

I thought it was beyond the time limits for an ECHR case for the slander of which she was convicted and if that was the case would serves no other purpose than a publications exercise (to help against extradition).

Thanks BookaBooSue. I too had assumed AK must be connected with the bra clasp, so that's interesting. Also the point about the hallway having been cleaned. Did I read that there was doubt about whether that knife was the murder weapon though, or have I misremembered that?

Sorry, one in ten billion it's not Sollecito's dna.

Most of what you just posted isn't true birdshighlans - as illustrated here

murderofmeredithkercher.com/the-bra-clasp/

The Independent experts conclusions were damning for the prosecution

Contamination was extremely likely as there was also DNA of three other unknown people on the bra clasp - and surely they weren't also involved

Raffaele had also spent time in the flat and with Meredith - they ate lunch together that day after Meredith showered and before she got dressed. This would make secondary transfer very possible

How is it possible that AK took part in this crime and yet left not one speck of her DNA in MK's room?

If a major clean up took place, it would have destroyed RG's DNA too, but his was found in many places in that room.

Those people who think she is guilty, please help me understand this point.

I've found that most people who think Amanda is guilty, don't have a theory of the crime based on the evidence, but just 'know' she did it

If Meredith was most likely killed close to 9pm and definitely before 10pm - and they started watching the short film Naruto at Raffaele's flat at 9:26pm - I would really like to know how they managed to meet Guede, invite him back to the cottage, allow Guede to do a poo, have an argument and kill Meredith all before 10pm.

it is quite terrifying given there is no DNA that she could serve such a sentence. How does the prosecution explain this? Was the body moved?

Why am I wrong? It appears that that all dna analysis performed since 1986 could be called into question by some of the arguments against RS's dna results.

"Also well founded is the issue raised by Attorney General, the passive acceptance by the court of the appointed experts' opinions regarding the inadequacy of the two samples in question (bra clasp and knife) for the detection of genetic profiles, as well as their opinion that it could not be ruled out that the results were derived from "contamination phenomena occurring at any stage of reporting and/or handling and/or process and/or analysis." The Hellmann court adopted all of the arguments developed in their report that, indeed, had been the subject of severe disagreement by both prof. Novelli and prof. Torricelli, consultants of the Attorney General and the civil parties whose authoritative voices were completely neglected. Prof. Novelli had agreed on the fact that protocols and recommendations do exist, but emphasised also the abilities of the operator and common sense, otherwise all DNA analysis performed since 1986 must be called into question.

It will be interesting to see in the report how the Florence trial assessed it. I believe a lot of things were to be looked at again more carefully. Surely, nobody could have an objection to that in a murder trial?

If that was his DNA on the bra clasp (which I doubt) how do you explain how there were no other traces of his DNA in the room? How did he and Amanda manage to commit this horrific crime which involved a terrible struggle and remove all of their DNA from the room but leave RG's in place?

How can people say categorically there is no dna when the Florence report hasn't been published yet? Are there Florence source documents in the public domain in English?

Where does it say 9.26 for watching a movie? I've only seen 9.10pm at latest for computer activity as in a movie ending. The house was only 10minutes away.

Can you pin down to within a 60 minute period when someone was murdered the day before?

More or less - because they know what time Meredith ate that evening. There was also the circumstantial stuff - she hadn't taken her jacket off, the time Rudi Guede was seen on CCTV near the cottage, the interrupted call to her mother, the fact she never got her laundry out of the machine etc that led to a likely timeline in that Rudi broke in just before she got home and attacked her shortly after. Her phones were shown to be elsewhere by about 10pm.

The 9:26 is in the appeal documents and was also included in this trial - there was also evidence of the screen saver being activated, which is again in the appeal documents

I don't think either of us are DNA experts thoughs - however, I would value the Independent experts opinions over any information written on the pro-guilt websites - and there opinion was that the results were not valid and that contamination was likely.

It wouldn't even be that surprising if Amanda or Raffaele's DNA had been found in Meredith's room seeing as they lived and spent time at the cottage - although there would have been no hope for them then