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Italian adoption case III

999 replies

Juliet123456 · 07/12/2013 09:29

The last thread says all I need to know about those in the system. It also the most legally dangerous thread I have ever seen on mumsnet. I hope someone has been through the posts for libel risk. It also entirely one sided and biased and makes me laugh.

The defensiveness of those involved in this area will hopefully disappear once we have the openness that JH and indeed many others are seeking and obtaining as the judges increasingly accept that it helps everyone to understand what are very difficult decisions - parents, children and lawyers and social workers and expert witnesses in this field.

It will continue to be important always to get to the facts and where possible publish the facts. I continue to believe that almost any of us could have our children removed if the state set its mind to that. If publishing more decisions and giving rights to parents and those involved and the children to write what they like on twitter, facebook and the like and to let parents and children even when separated communicate and talk about any issues they choose will help then let us hope the law continues down that course.

OP posts:
nennypops · 12/12/2013 20:46

Extraordinary. JH comes on here to tell us all about how the Italian lady was misdiagnosed, yet when asked to enlarge on this he doesn't deign to explain himself or even to reply. However, what he does do is to dig out an old post from claig who hasn't taken an active part in this discussion for ages and answer that. Because, of course, claig is someone who doesn't ask any of those nasty old questions that might be embarrassing to answer.

As has been pointed out, it's incredibly rude and arrogant. If you don't want to engage in grown-up discussion, Mr Hemming, do us a favour and stay away.

confuddledDOTcom · 12/12/2013 20:51

John, as a constituent I have as much right to be involved in this conversation as the others on this thread who aren't. I am not going to talk to you offline just because I'm a constituent!

CarpeVinum · 12/12/2013 20:52

can safely conclude you included social workers in that

Espeically after he called them "like the GESTAPO!"

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/aug/08/hemmingsway
www.fassit.co.uk/daily_mail_mp.htm

johnhemming · 12/12/2013 20:52

How in god's name do you assert that the Italian woman was mis-diagnosed

I will be writing to the MHT to ask for an apology for it as well.

There is a lot I know about the case which is not in the public domain. I wrote yesterday to Essex about certain aspects of the case (which have not been reported).

It is also important to note that the perspective of the UFTDU is based upon what is in the public domain and not the additional information I have.

nennypops · 12/12/2013 20:53

Spero: quite. He must know what he's doing about funding for social services is his constituency, what with it being such an interest of his and all, yet he can't manage to say anything whatsoever about it.

Some might think that's because he spends so much time on social media and touting himself around the press that he hasn't actually got around to doing anything. No doubt if that's wrong he'll give us a few details.

nennypops · 12/12/2013 20:58

Oh for goodness sake, I'm so sick of all these mysterious references to information in JH's possession which allegedly totally vindicates him but which sadly he can't divulge. Last time he did that, when he eventually produced the evidence it proved the exact opposite of what he claimed. And I'm afraid that I can't take any of these assertions seriously as a result.

johnhemming · 12/12/2013 21:03

it proved the exact opposite of what he claimed
No it proved exactly what I claimed.

A social worker was instructed not to write a report saying a child should return home (that in itself is unlawful). She did say the child should return home and was fired. The spurious arguments about additional assessments do not change the underlying truth.

On a completely separate issue someone was recently threatened with litigation for complaining to me about an issue. That is why I don't say where I get information from.

CarpeVinum · 12/12/2013 21:06

I will be writing to the MHT to ask for an apology for it as well

You say that like it is significant. That the act of somebody writing a letter somehow demonstrates you are correct there was a misdiagnosis. But it doesn't. It's evidence of being able to type and click a stamp.

It's a bit like somebody saying "*I'm taking to court." It doesn't somehow underline how right they are about something.

Especially if they keep losing.

johnhemming · 12/12/2013 21:11

Especially if they keep losing.

I am not sure what you mean by this. I have explained, for example,that I have completed application papers for three cases in the court of appeal which have resulted in the party for whom I completed the papers winning. Normally when you get permission to appeal there is funding for lawyers to do the rest. However, I count those as wins.

Without my pro bono work the appeals would not have happened.

Devora · 12/12/2013 21:12

Please, John, answer this because I'm really curious: what difference does it make to the case that she was initially diagnosed as schizophrenic rather than bipolar?

Spero · 12/12/2013 21:18

the document you sent to me did not prove a social worker was sacked for recommending reunification

it proves that the LA believed she had been disciplined for failing to follow her line managers instructions not to recommend reunification without further assessment

Shall I set this to music, hire a marching band and have them parade around Birmingham? Would that help it sink in for you?

Shall I get some T shirts printed?

Do you genuinely not understand what that page said?

I don't know which is more frightening, that you really don't ... Or you really do

nennypops · 12/12/2013 21:24

Mr Hemming, the issue of further assessments in the sacked social worker case is fundamental to the underlying truth, no matter how much you might wish that was not the case. It means that it is simply not true to say that the SW was sacked for the reason you assert. Please stop assuming that we're too stupid to work that out, it really is very rude.

johnhemming · 12/12/2013 21:25

ie she was told not to recommend unification.

That breaches the civil procedure rules.

It is also contrary to Lashin v Russia (I can find the case reference if you wish).

LakeDistrictBabe · 12/12/2013 21:27

What is the UFTDU or whatever the acronym was?

Please specify.

LakeDistrictBabe · 12/12/2013 21:29

@Spero

Let's go with the T-shirts printed, yay!

Spero · 12/12/2013 21:31

she was told not to recommend reunification without further assessment

Ok band, a one, two, a one two three four...

LakeDistrictBabe · 12/12/2013 21:33

Five, six, seven, eight, nine... Ten!

Here you go...

Spero · 12/12/2013 21:33

O yes please DO find me the correct reference for this Russia case.

Given your previous form it will turn out to be a case involving theft or breach of contract which will mysteriously transmogrify in your mind to a steering indictment of the UK child protection system.

johnhemming · 12/12/2013 21:33

a) the further assessments were not done
b) the further assessments were never specified
c) there was no reason given why the further assessments were required.

But this is irrelevant.

It is was the recommendation of reunification that got her fired.

It was the act of recommending reunification.

johnhemming · 12/12/2013 21:35

What is the UFTDU or whatever the acronym was?

www.unionedirittiumani.it/

Spero · 12/12/2013 21:36

Shall we all club together to get JH a T shirt for Christmas? On the front it could say 'social workers are just like the GESTAPO'.

And on the back it could say 'I never said that and this is not a T. Shirt'

LakeDistrictBabe · 12/12/2013 21:36

Uftdu è l'unione forense per la tutela dei diritti umani ahahahahahahahahahah they have 32 likes on facebook, I have more audience on my blog and on twitter!

Of course they read the Daily Mail... Such an association in Italy is important like me... I.e. Nothing lol

People who act like they have support and they have nothing are quite ridiculous XD

@Spero can I be the drummer in the band?

johnhemming · 12/12/2013 21:38

try this
hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/fra/pages/search.aspx?i=001-116020

LakeDistrictBabe · 12/12/2013 21:38

@johnhemming

Honestly... Are you really that ignorant... I mean how can you be so unaware of another country customs, associations and societies...and anything else?

Show me a letter from the Italian ambassador, that would convince me.