Latest Wakefield MMR Scandal

[twiglett]

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we've been waiting a year for dd's mumps vaccine!
It's not simply that i can't be arsed to take her.(though i'm sure that's what people would tell you!)

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twiglett, dd was October 2003 so we are about the same!!

sorry, 2002!

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I am one of those parents who are probably cited as 'forgetting' - only the only reason ds hasn't had his mumps vaccine is because the f government won't allow it into the country. I know who I'll be blaming if the poor mite gets it. He was immunised against measles & rubella several months before his peers who had the MMR in my part of London, so hardly posed a risk to anyone. This government would LOVE a mumps epidemic so it could 'prove its point'. It is a conspiracy that is preventing my son from getting his mumps vaccination so no, I don't trust the gvmt over Wakefield. Grrrr

totally agree Aloha! Yes twiglett, it is Direct Health 2000! You should be before me then as apparently there's a list and last time we called dd was high on it but they couldn't get the vaccines!

Well there you go - if there is no separate mumps vaccine at the mo. I think you are all getting notched down on the "oops see forgot" list! I surprised my HV by agreeing right away, I think she thought I would need persuading and had a who folder of bumph to give me. Do you think there is a shortage of mumps vaccines on purpose or am I being too conspiracy theory?

And that is why I do my own research on topics that bother me - it is very very hard to get the truth when all you hear are versions of it.

Wow, I thought I'd get a lot more stick than I have. Has the "Fruit and Veg war" taken the bite out of everyone? ONLY KIDDING!

Of course I wasn't generalising to say every parent of an autistic child blames MMR but specifying to what was being discussed - namely those who did.

The chattering classes, by the by, IMO are those who don't really have anything to worry about (bills, money etc) so get themselves worked into a tizzy over the slightest thing, specifically over dinner parties as typified on Bremner, Bird and Fortune. I shall shut up now before I offend anyone and say only that the government balls everything up - why should we listen to a word they say!

You can always get an "expert" to say exactly what you want to hear.

And before anyone gets in a knicker twist I am not slagging off the rich!

Shall I get back in the bunker or will I be okay?

I don't have to worry about bills as it happens, but what that has to do with my daughters health is beyond me!!
You still didn't say where you got it that parents "forget" or was that just assumption?

You seem a bit dissapointed not to have an argument! (maybe the chattering classes have more to do than argue)

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I agree with Twiglett. Of course the MMR is safe for the vast, vast majority of children at the very least. However, I do think I should have the right to vaccinate my child differently. The single vaccines exist and are as effective, if not more so, than MMR, but the gvmt is telling me I can't give them to my son. I think that' wrong.

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OH BUGGER OFF PAULA!!!!!!!

JESUS CHRIST -why not try talking to people who believe their children regressed following MMR. These people tell a VERY DIFFERENT story to people like me.

In our case I believe my son was damaged by thimerosil - and given Walsh's work on metallothionein and autism that seems very likely- read up on it if you want.

He then regressed following eczema herpeticum (eczema infected with the herpes virus) at 11 months. You may not believe me but if you look at video you will see that before e herpecticum he was gaze monitering and starting to speak. After e herpeticum he lost those skills, and developed very severe sensory problems.

Beliveing my son was damaged after birth does not make me a loony. If you talk to the people whose children regressed after MMR they were developing normally. They were pointing - which effectively rules out autism, and then within weeks they weren't and had developed severe bowel problems.

No-one is calling you stupid - you are calling those parents stupid. Luckily they are used to it.

I have been told by a professional (and I use the term loosely) that I was in denial about my son's autism. SHe also told the school that. And why? Becuase I said he had a speech problem AS WELL. Guess what- he has now been diagnosed with a speech problem as well.

Wakfield et al estimate about 10% of autism may be MMR triggered (and if you look at Walsh's work and read up on metallothionein you will find something that may be behind it). 90% of cases are not caused by MMR (although again read up on metallothionein and you may begin to get some idea why there has been a big jump in cases around the time of MMR introduction- the thimerosil containing jabs were no longer given at 3 months 7 months and 1 1months- and instead were given at 8 weeks 12 weeks and 16 weeks - dodgy metallothionein means no time to detoxify thimerosil= brain damage).

so your twins had MMR and were fine? Well boogaloo for you.

I'm off to find someone to blame for my son's autism, becuase I'm such an eggshell character I couldn't possibly be able to read scientific papers and see what they really tell us ie nothing much so far. F hell. Maybe you would like to explain to the parents of the children who regressed after MMR why their children have vaccine strain measles in their guts and spinal fluid?

BTW I have written to the Gaurdian re mumps shortage - I doubt they'll publish it though as I accuse the givt of blocking the supply.

Now let me see I know about 80 parents of autistic kids I can think of 5 I know who blame the MMR. One writes a very harrowing description of her son's behaviour following the MMR. (ie went from totally normal to losing all speech, poo smearing and screaming in pain all day and all night within days of receiving the MMR). Perhaps I could introduce you and you could tell her that she was looking for someone to blame.

She has a child with DS as well- she was already used to disordered development. She's published books and speaks regulary at conferences. But obviously she's a poor deluded fool who is just kdding herself.

Trty talking to Rosemary kessick as well- she's a fairly awe inspiring woman, and will happily talk about William.

There's also quite possibly a link between having MMR, catching chickenpox around the same time and regression.

Jimjams, thanks for those great articles. Looks like Melanie Philips has done our job for us. Bet it felt funny posting that!

I still think it's great that this bollocks is receiving a public airing. There can now be no doubt about spin, smearing and suppression of science by the govnt and drug companies. The article about anti-wakefield scientists being funded by drug companies is MANDATORY reading.

Hope I haven't killed this thread - I seem to have the kiss of death atm.

Posts crossed there, jimjams. Sorry about all this shite. Just ignore her, I think she was baiting anyway. I'm really sorry and disgusted that people can remain so ignorant in the face of so much suffering, suffering that their own children didn't even have to go through.#**#!

Please note - I am not looking to make an argumentative point on this thread (don?t feel qualified and don?t have the inclination) but I am after some advice/clarification on this topic if anyone is feeling up to being objective and factual
I have read this thread carefully and noticed that one of Droile?s posts state that

"MMR does not contain Thimerosal and the majority of pediatric vaccinations are given in the first year of life."

Have I got it really wrong (am no scientist) - isn?t the thimerosal part the bit with mercury in and one of the parts that there is so much concern about in children?s vaccines. If this is true and there is none of it used in the early vaccines, is there still reason to be concerned about any mercury used at all? Are there any factual reports/tests down to prove/disprove that the amounts of mercury used in any other jabs has any definite health risks?

Are there any stats out there that we can really really really trust?! I would love to know if there were any accurate odds out there that state the possibility of serious lasting side effects if my child caught one of these illnesses compared with the odds of lasting side effects of the MMR. I don?t know who to trust anymore. I am too cyncial to believe the NHS blarb, the government blarb seems wholly political and for their benefit only.

Am I the only one who finds all the debate confusing and am without a strong opinion and emotion other than confusion and frustration about the whole issue? So many of you seem so convinced and strong minded to the point that many of you can be quite insulting to people with different opinions than your own at times. How can you be so sure? I know I am rambling, but I am so mixed up about it all - not for want of trying to understand and interpret different threads, documents and articles from a wide source. Perhaps I have reached the point of reading too much and thinking too hard about it. Maybe I just needed to sound off and find out if I am the only one out there so mixed up and lacking over this important topic

Stripymouse

Did you get that from the states? In the states and aus they give DtaP which does not contain thimerosil (but they also give hepb which does). In the UK they usually give DTwP to infants- which DOES contain thimerosil. You can ask for DTaP but depending on your surgery you may or may not have a battle. DTaP is given at pre-school injections. Sinle hib and men C do not contain thimerosil AFAIK.

As for thimerosil - there are apparently over 2000 studies showing it is unsafe (by which I mean it is better not to have in your body- not necessarily showing it is unsafe in vaccinations). There is one study (from about 1935??) showing it is safe but all the recipeints dies (I'm serious).

On the thread mercury aluminium and genetics under health there is a link to a 2 hour radio show about thimerosil. It's interesting. Mentions Wakefiled as well and how scared the UK govt are of him. And gives an interesting story behind the spinal fluid (which I have had more or less confirmed by someone who knows the group well).

cheers- Droile I thought the Evening Standard article I posted last night was excellent. Hopefully the govt is regretting all this now.

Do I think there is a link between autism and vaccination in vulnerable children?

Possibly

Would I like this to be exposed if there was?

Yes

Why?

So that the govt may be shamed into doing something about the natinal disgrace that constitutes education and health care for the autistic population. Who knows my non-verbal son may ven get some NHS speech therapy.

That's why I would personally like the whole things to be sorted. Not so I can satisfy my need for blame (which I don't have- after all if my son was particualrly vulnerable genetics must play a part- dodgy metallothionein and all that- so I must ultimately be to blame).

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