Latest Wakefield MMR Scandal

[twiglett]

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I don't see what Tony Blair's son has got to do with this. So what if he doesn't want to vaccinate or Cherie doesn't want to vaccinate? I agree it's silly of him not to say,but this isn't just the UK government and offical health org saying the MMR is safe, but as far as I know most of the Western World. I am all for continued research into all vaccines, but as for a big cover-up by the men in black?

ho ho ho

This is from todays Schafer autism report (daily news bulletin about autism). Surely the govt must be beginning to regret trying the coflict of interest line?

MMR Docs' Links With Drugs Firms

[By Fionnuala Burke, Sunday Mercury, UK.]
icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/content_objectid=
14001726method=fullsiteid=50002_headline=-MMR-docs--links-with-drugs-firms
-name_page.html

Fairymum
Please note I was only expressing my opinion.
There is alot of women out their who do believe their child has been affected by MMR and there is alot people who say it's safe the case continues.
I'm sure there are many parents out there like me just don't know what to believe.

And more from the same report. The second observer letter is really rather good

Twisted Conflicts

[To The Observer, UK.]
observer.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,6903,1158682,00.html

It seems a scientist, such as Dr Andrew Wakefield (News and Leader,
last week), who uncovers genuine concerns about the safety of a vaccine has
to be 'squeaky clean'.
In contrast, scientists who are vocal in support of the vaccine, and
are responsible for checking its safety, are allowed to receive research
funding from the company that produces it and to hold shares in the company,
or act as consultants.
These people will doubtless claim that they have declared a conflict
of interest. However, the declaration of a conflict of interest does not
mean that such a conflict does not exist. Which 'MMR scandal' is the Health
Minister proposing to set up an enquiry to investigate?

• Dr Milton Wainwright Department of Molecular Biology and Biotechnology University of Sheffield

The furore over Dr Andrew Wakefield's 1998 Lancet paper is a storm in
a teacup. Your assertions that 'colossal damage has been done' are
misleading hyperbole. There is no evidence that the decision of many parents
to shun the MMR in favour of single vaccines is damaging.
Who has been damaged? Not the children. There were more than three
times as many notified cases of measles in the five years preceding
Wakefield's paper (1993-1997) as there were in the five years following it
(1998-2002). More people died from measles in the period 1993-7 than in the
subsequent five years. In fact no child under five (the age group the MMR is
designed primarily to protect) has died from measles since 1992. Experts
have been predicting measles epidemics for years.
'We could be on the verge of a public health disaster', proclaims your
editorial. Yet the real health disaster is the epidemic of autism. The
numbers of autistic children have risen 10-fold since the introduction of
the MMR in 1988. Your leader is also incorrect to state that 'his fellow
authors have disowned the paper'.
The only way to discover the true impact of the MMR vaccine on the
incidence of autism in this country is to conduct a prospective study
following children up for many years. If that had been instigated by the
Department of Health when Dr Wakefield first shared his concerns in
confidence with them in 1997 we would by now have the answer.

• Dr Richard Halvorsen Holborn Medical Centre, London

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Isn't Cherie's sister a homeopath? Can't see her rushing to get her kids vaccinated. Wonder whether Leo had thimerosil at 8, 12 and 16 weeks.Hmmmm

Nothing to add, just wanted to say what an interesting, terrifying and depressing thread this is. Thanks Jimjams and the rest of you.

twiglett I think someone else is busy outing Dr Penelope Eugenie Elphinstone. She has been on those rapid response (BMJ?) bulletins, not declaring conflicts of interest.

Sorry to be a lazy git, haven't read this whole thread but just want to say there's a whole page in the latest Private Eye that might be of interest

Yes it was good.

The Sunday Times was pushing its agenda yesterday. Some very careful wording- unfortunately people will probably read that crap and believe it.

Yes, I saw that jimjams. Depressing, isn't it? Also, they seem to be parent-bashing again, although I haven't read the whole article (p16, FOCUS). What IS it with them?

Just wanted to stick in that in one of dh's medical magazines (the weekly news thingies hw gets, rather than the journals) there was a big article about the fact that chickenpox vaccine is NOT going to be introduced for general use - it will be available to adults who didn't have it as children (as CP is potentially life threatening in some adults) but will not be introduced routinely for children - partly as it is responsible for a huge rise in shingles cases in the states apparantly. SO we're not to have that one added to the pile for now at least - think it said it was a NICE decision, but can't tell for sure now as said paper (medical profession refer to them as 'comics' ) has been under the guinea pigs for several days and is unreadable!

I don't know but I've contacted a researcher in the past who had been reported in The Times as parent bashing (autism=poor parenting, ADHD = children need to climb trees crap) and she sent me the orginal press release she sent to The Times. It bore no resemblance to the article at all.

The ST was a joke. O Leary has a)found measles RNA in the gut of most children with regressive autism and b) has ALWAYS maintained that that is not sufficient evidence to prove causation. Nothing new at all.

They aslo harped on about 10 of the original 12 saying that the original paper did not prove causation. The bloody paper itself says that!!! they also said that these people "retracted the interpretation". How on earth can you retract an interpretation?

All Wakefield has ever said is that there may be a link and more research is needed. What the f* is so threatening about that?

cheers for that susanmt. I wonder if they plan to test adults? I've never had CP but when tested in pregnancy was shown to be immune.

I know jimjams. I'm close to losing the will to breathe with all this. It would be useful if those 10 came up with a new interpretation of their findings, wouldn't it. I suspect that this would be to say something like, what is vaccine strain measles doing in the guts of these children - further research is needed. Not so different from the original conclusion really. Give me strength.

yes jimjams, I think (certainly not dragging out smelly paper to look at I'm afraid, and its not available online) that the article said adults would be offered an immunity test before vaccination. Apparantly CP in adults can be ghastly - people have died of it because their skin just totally breaks down due to the number of spots and they lose lots of fluids - like all over burns (urrgh). Or they get pneumonia or meningitis. And of course there is a risk to the unborn. A friend of mine whose about to start ttc for the first time had the immunity test and the immunisation a few weeks ago and says it has really taken a weight off her mind.

that's really interesting susanmt, thanks for posting that (and lol about the hamster bit!)

"And of course there is a risk to the unborn. A friend of mine whose about to start ttc for the first time had the immunity test and the immunisation a few weeks ago and says it has really taken a weight off her mind."

I did the same, susanmt - had a real battle convincing my doctor that I wanted the vaccination but I'm so relieved now. One of my better health decisions, imo

I never knew this until last week when DS2 had chickenpox.

Maybe I'm missing something but it's not exactly well publicised, is it?

it can be nasty, but usually chickenpox in adults isn't horrendous! The risk of complications is increased as it is for any childhood illness (except whooping cough I guess) I do think there's a case for checking immunity of women ttc as it isn't nice for a newborn. However my uncle had chickenpox as a newborn and he wasn't that poory with it.

droile it's a joke isn't it. Read some very interesting stuff about it all yesterday. There's some new research in the publishing pipeline. The other thing is that there is apparently quite a demand from the states to get testing done on the kids (the stuff Wakefield did). If that was done (it would have to be done privately I think) then it may help to get to the bottom of it all.

That sounds hopeful then jimjams.

Jimjams

Just spotted some of your messages here

Have always wanted to be able to say how much I admire the people who felt MMR damaged their children and stuck by their feelings.

Amongst other colosal medical errors in my family's life, my sister was brain damaged at birth by incompetent doctor. Years and years of dealing with medical profession makes you pretty sceptical when you listen to what has been going on in this debate.

I know it is very very tough to uphold your beliefs when people who have little contact with drs etc are naturally susceptible to what looks like incontrevertible (spelling?!) evidence. But it is because people like you speak out that some of us, more wary, areable to protect our children from I am absolutely convinced is genuine danger.

I totally trust the parents who began to speak out against MMR - it's a too familiar scenario. I also admire Andrew Wakefirld for standing by what he originally said and not flinching.

But really, I regard people like yourself as helping to protect my own children by making your experiences known. No consolation I am sure to you, but a massive thanks from em.
Jx

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