Amanda Hutton found guilty of manslaughter

[Rowlers]

Just that.

I find the photo of that poor little boy very distressing.

It is bloody pisses me right off that rescue dogs get more time and care put into their placements with families than children. So what you had sex and became pregnant, that gives you no rights to take your child home if you haven't got the ability or desire to look after them.

Kids having kids

Life on benefits

No fathers

No thought given to what having a baby actually means

Human rights - I can do what I want

No chance of people judging you - you can do what you like..

Smoking, under the influence of drugs - no problem - do what you like again. We will give you chance after chance.

House (if you can get in) in squalor. No worries - no one will judge

Late night parties that the neighbours complain about - dont worry, we understand - you are only young once. Baby can be surrounded by smokers (or worse) but dont worry. We understand you cannot afford a babysitter.

People coming to the house at all times of the day and night - visitors to help care for the baby of course.

Thes are all red flags of various degrees but they ARE red flags...

I have just read the news about this case. Wont read any more but that SC, she had been in the role 2 DAYS and knew something was wrong. She threatened to kick he door in if Hutton didnt let her in. There were flies coming off her body!

Initially the SC was there because Hutton was throwing nappies into a neighbours garden. So lets add anti social behaviour to the list.

Perhaps its about time we start judging people's lives. People who live like this need to be flagged and spot checks need to be undertaken again and again. Why are people allowed to live in such squalor with children around and not be told to clean and clear up. Otherwise we are telling the adults that their needs and wants are MUCH more important than their kids!

Shall we run SS hand cream?

I have worked in social work and in an associated profession. I got out. I was told not to 'judge' and had to learn to accept 'good enough' parenting. Thing is.........all this anger, yes we need better child surveillance but you watch if try to up the ante with anything compulsory, there would be a massive outcry about rights.

Additionally I am now betting that the serious case review will find the same fails as in Daniel Pelluck, Keanu, Baby Peter, victoria Climbie's, Maria Caldwell FGS and many more........lack of communication, an optimistic view, agencies not fully following procedures.

Social workers err on the side of optimism, they want to help, they believe in change which is why it is so hard to tackle situations like the one this poor child was in. Someone should be appointed to be the 'bad guy' when a child is identified as at risk. Yes support and assist the family but the bad guy can be the critical friend, can look after the interests on,y of the child, to say the difficult things, to challenge the optimistic view. Give them the powers to enter houses, to check rooms etc. they can be the enforcers of social work if you like. They can think the unthinkable and say the unsayable.

The probation service changed it's philosophy from assisting and befriending offenders to one of managing risk, usually successfully. Something to learn I think.

Candustpleasefuckoff

Thankyou. This is exactly what my colleague s ns I have been discussing
We usually do get an incling when somethings not right. All we can do is fill in a form for sw and usually hear nothing else about it.

"Having personal experience of dealing with someone with alcohol problems - it IS easy. They are slurring their words, they jump from being very happy to grumpy in a flash. They are unsteady on their feet, they drop off in unexpected places. They dont appear normal and able to hold a proper conversation."
Having alcohol problems is not the same as being an alcoholic.
But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.......

"Having personal experience of dealing with someone with alcohol problems - it IS easy. They are slurring their words, they jump from being very happy to grumpy in a flash. They are unsteady on their feet, they drop off in unexpected places. They dont appear normal and able to hold a proper conversation."
Having alcohol problems is not the same as being an alcoholic.
But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.......

I would loved to have been that SC - having the nerve to threaten to kick the door in having only been in the role for 2 days. Wow!

I do think though that things need to change. We cannot allow people to do whatever they like with no come back. We are so nervous about being seen to judge someone that we dont say anything at all.

Last week I saw a women in Waitrose with a wheeler wandering the store and filling it up. Maybe she was just using it as storage until she got to the till. But I did tell the security guard she was doing it.

I hope if I saw anything I would step in. I saw last year a boy being pushed and shoved on his way to school. I stopped the car and ran over. Quite what I thought I would do I am not sure. I have boys myself, maybe that's what spurred me on. I offered a lift to the boy to get him away from the situation and told the other boys to clear/piss off.

I felt safe doing it because it was 8.30 in the morning and there were lots of people around. Would I do the same in the pitch black - I am not sure.

Perfectly possible to have alcoholism and show very few signs of it. My father downed 30 units a day for 40 years without his partner ever believing he was alcoholic the stupid deluded mare.

Lagoon - its a shame you left SS. I do think you are right though, I like the idea of the critical friend looking at it from the child's point of view.

If there are complaints of late night parties and people coming and going what is that doing to the child. Its not just about the mother having a good time.

I'm afraid that stories like this turn me into a real hardliner who believes that far more children should be removed from their parents far earlier, at birth in many cases. This woman should never have been allowed to be responsible for 5 children - frankly, she should never have been allowed to give birth to these children.

Laughable. Fifteen years.

Well she will have a tough 15 years ahead. Or less, as no doubt she will get out early.

I hope her other children are safe and getting proper care. They will have an uphill struggle.
There is so much more which hasn't come out yet.

In this case plenty are saying she was staggering around drunk most of the time. FGS - there were flies coming off her. She wasnt hiding it. It was just seen as being acceptable. Did no one think if she was drunk most of the most what the children must be suffering.

I strongly disagree that you cannot spot someone with a drink problem unless you choose to ignore it.

The smell of drink, the shaking hands, the red face, the ability to not stand on your own feet, the hiding of bottles around the house thinking they wont be found (they will!). The look of someone the next morning. Even very small signs like trashing the view that A&E have a problem with drunks, they are just enjoying themselves and it goes on and on.

Just so sad this is still happening :( no lessons have been learned at all.

When my daughter dislocated her elbow and we went to the hospital we left without seeing a doctor as the nurse could see she popped it back in herself (boak!)....

First thing the following morning my HV rung me and wanted to know what had happened as it had been fed back to her that 'sleepingbunnies didn't present at the doctor '

How comes in the cases it's not needed checks are rightly made but where a family is living in such utter filth and neglect it isn't?!

It makes most of us into hardliners tbh. Baby P's scum bag mother will be pregnant within a year without fail. She will then claim her human rights to have another baby. And the shocking thing is - she just might win.

Agree with. mrsoakenshield

In the news yesterday I heard, on average in the UK a child a week is killed at the hands of a parent/ guardian etc. we have the highest rate of child sex abuse in Europe.

This is only the tip of the iceberg. I'm sure there lots more cases that never even make the headline news.

I'm sorry to say. As much as authorities attempt to put in measures to safeguard these children, some will always slip the net. Humans are not infallible. There will always be a parent who will do whatever it takes to deceive and hide whatever atrocious things they're doing to their little ones. It's very sad. But I personally have very little hope in anything ever changing.

Sleeping bunnies - you are right.

I wouldnt mind a HV checking things out. You have nothing to hide. But some do and some even think that HV should be checking. What you do or dont do is 100% up to you

When they asked me to remove her dress I didn't think twice. It wasn't till afterwards that my SW friend told me they would have been looking for bruises that I felt so :( but again it's because I had nothing to hide.

I have heard its 1-2 per week are killed within the family. We should hang our heads in shame. Then decide what we are ALL going to do about it... Is it to call SS when a child keeps crying, when neighbours are anti social. When New York Mayor many years ago introduced zero tolerance to crime however small the murder rate dropped over 60%.

Maybe zero tolerance for the red flag families.

I'm truly heartbroken about the whole situation. It's something that will stay with me for as long as I live, I will remember where I was when I heard her sentence.
I will remember the overwhelming reaction too.
I don't think it's the right one.
Everywhere I look people want her to hang or to be attacked in prison. I have those feelings for some people (Mark Bridger springs to mind) but not for her.
I think that she was patently severely mentally unwell.
The fact that she kept his poor body in the house demonstrates to me that she was not a calculating killer - she was derranged.
This does not of course make what happened to that poor, poor child any better, worse even, because it was prolonged.
But perhaps understanding that this woman was not in her right mind and seeing the horrific outcome when het situation is left unchecked could teach us something.