Zimmerman found 'not guilty' of Trayvon Martin's murder

[Kveta]

m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23304198

Bloody hell.

How utterly crap for Martin's family and friends :( and how dangerous for race relations in Florida :(

On the gun front if America refuses most gun policies (ridiculous IMO but whatever) Surely having a criminal record of violence should put you out of the running to own a gun?

agree specialagent

oh get over yourself jessie I know plenty of racists with black partners and MR kids

its the old 'my best friend is black dontchaknow' card

^^ This Boomba. DH is black and I'm shocked to see how many racist 'friends and wives of friends' he has. It is actually hard for me to fathom but I know mixed race couples where one is ridiculously racist (thinking of one in particular, guy is a PIG)

I know it seems silly if you haven't experienced it, but it really does exist! Though in the cases I know of, it's part of emotional abuse sadly which has nothing to do with skin colour :(

anyway, off point. Point is racists in a mixed partnership do exist.

Do you Boomba? How strange.

strange? yes. unusual? not really

Sadly, it isn't unusual. It's used as another stick for an emotional abuser to beat their partner with.

Realistically, if you were an abusive arsehole, who better to date than a minority? They're already second class citizens. Easier to beat them down.

I feel horrid writing that :( But from what I've seen sadly it can be true. REFUSE to let it happen to MY DD!! (and DS's)

I had never even considered that, how horrible :(

What really baffles me though is when white people are killed by black people and in some cases the race IS the issue, you don't see white people throwing massive protests and death threats etc

Is it really baffling?

White people don't need to 'throw' massive protests because when a white person is killed by a black person justice is served.

If the roles were reversed in this case and zimmerman were black and Trayvon white, zimmerman would be in jail now. quite possibly on death row.

he was hardly going to murder a kid while he waited for them

Except he did murder [justifiably apparently] a kid and he didnt wait for the police did he? he was told not to follow him but he did anyway/

IME its not so much overt/abusive racism; but covert racism where people hold prejudices/misconceptions, they dont consider themselves racist at all, dont even realise it...it can be very subtle

ChrissieTay since yesterday morning you have been trying to justify murder.

My dss is 17, he is a child, he is also black - what would have happened if Zimmerman behaved like that towards my ss, I don't know.

Luckily we live in the uk and I don't have to worry about this as much as parents in the US.

The under lying message in cases like this is that black life is cheap in America.

Some people will disagree with me til the cows come home but we know that the second the police arrived Trayvon was treated like the criminal, not Zimmerman.

The force used was disproportionate and no one will convince me otherwise.

Interesting, not something I have come across, thankfully. I guess it just goes to show that personal circumstances tell us nothing about a person's views or values. Anyway I can assure you that none of my views on this situation are based on anything other than an objective analysis of the facts an I would have come to the same view had they been anonymised to "person A" and "person B" with no race revealed. However I not convinced that all of you could say the same.

Regarding Zimmerman's arrest record, perhaps the fact that the charges were dropped has aomething to do with him getting the gun- he was never convicted of anything, or even tried before this trial. However I am not sure that it makes any difference as he did NOT pull the gun until Martin was beating him so hard that his life was at risk (I am even prepared to concede that perhaps the bit about Martin going for the gun was just Zimmerman's word against a dead man).

Some people will disagree with me til the cows come home but we know that the second the police arrived Trayvon was treated like the criminal, not Zimmerman

THIS^^

its unthinkable to some that Trayvon was innocent/blameless; And that Zimmermans initial suspicion and subsequent actions of Trayvon were understandable

there is also an underlying narrative that a 17 year old black boy, is less of a child/ less innocent than a 17 year old white boy

Have you seen the closing arguement in the film 'A Time to Kill'?? It sums up a little about how black victims are viewed different to white victims (i wont link as its rape related/triggering)

Amber, the point I was making was about Zimmerman's intent- he had a gun. He allegedly wanted to punish Martin for the sins of all the "punks" he had never caught in the past. So if he intended to do that by shooting Martin unprovoked, why call the police, who would then arrive to arrest him for the crime? Clearly all he wanted was to seeartin arrested, and that's why he followed him, so that he could point the police in the right direction. Perhaps he DID even have misguided plans to restrain Martin, but Martin went for him before he had made any sort of physical gesture towards him. The point is that he only formed the intent to kill was when he had to do so to save his own life.

Hokey - You have obviously not read all of my posts - I'm NOT justifying murder (!) ... And I assume I need to capitalize this now I AM MERELY ANGERED THAT IT IS BEING LABELLED AS ANOTHER RACE / HATE CRIME, WHEN THERE WASN'T EVEN ANY ELEMENT OF RACIAL ABUSE INVOLVED !!! Jeez !

"it is unthinkable to some that trayvon was innocent/blameless".

Yes, weirdly I do find it unthinkable that smashing someone's head into the pavement when they haven't laid a finger on you is a "blameless" act.

Yes Trayvon had no marks/injuries that would be consistent with battering someone to that degree minutes/seconds before his death.

Ive read his autopsy report and he had no such injuries.

ah well...status quo maintained.

May I ask how you know - beyond reasonable doubt - That a man with a racist track record like Zimmerman had that his stalking Martin had 'no element of racial abuse involved? -

Remember - Beyond a reasonable doubt - Can you back that up with evidence?

A Time to Kill was such a sad book/film. I know many dismissed it as PC nonsense but especially in the time it was released and the setting, it really wasn't. The end [spoiler] Doesn't even imply he got away with the guard/No time etc, etc [spoiler]

The most disturbing part was the reaction of the jury when they were asked to imagine that innocent child wasn't white. :(

There's also a nurse in severe facial injuries on here (sorry can't remember the title) who said if he were beaten to a pulp he simply would not have been released with butterfly strips.

Also Jessie I obviously strongly disagree with you but my point about racism existing in couples wasn't meant 'Ha ha! You emotionally abuse your boyfriend!' Sorry if it came across that way!

But Jessie, you cannot possibly know whether Zimmerman "made any sort of physical gesture towards him" or not, its Zimmerman's word against a dead boy's! And of course he isnt going to admit that he provoked Martin into attacking him/defending himself

I'm sorry but I fail to see how a woman (in this case / example) would consider a black partner if she were a racist?? I think you are just using that to justify your nonsense!

Special Agent, no I didn't take it that way and I was sad to hear that you have seen situations like that; it's not one familiar to me and the psychological analysis does make sense. I actually can also fully believe that there are people in mixed race relationships who are racist, again not something I have witnessed though.

Regarding whether Martin was the aggressor, you and Red Jeans are missing the point- of course I can't possibly know, but the evidence presented at trial (eg an expert who said his injuries were consistent with being beaten to an extent that he feared his life) was accepted by the jury to raise sufficient doubt to render a prosecution unsafe. There has been a fair and thorough trial, we were not there to hear all the evidence but we need to trust those who were and not second-guess or disregard the verdict otherwise the whole syatem collapses.

I am disgusted with the result of this trial but not surprised.

Once again the US justice system has failed black Americans and a young black boy (yes a boy not a man) who was brutally gunned down is being blamed for his own death.

He lies dead and the best we can do is label him a thug who got what was coming to him (because lets not beat around the bush here that has been the argument of quite a few on this thread).

Zimmerman was/is in my mind guilty of murder, he stalked an innocent 17year old boy safe in the knowledge that he was carrying a deadly weapon. Martin was carrying skittles.

Zimmerman made it quite clear he was following Martin and it is believed Martin would have heard Zimmerman's insults directed at him via the call to the police. Zimmerman clearly purposefully intimidated a 17year old boy safe in the knowledge he could reach for his loaded gun and shoot to kill at any point he felt threatened himself.

Martin felt threatened and he turned round and punched Zimmerman which then lead to a scuffle. Zimmerman felt threatened and shot Martin dead.

Zimmerman caused this situation, Zimmerman provoked the situation, Zimmerman always knew he was safe because he was carrying a loaded gun that he was just itching to have a reason to use.

Yet this is all Martin's fault because he is a thug

Racial profiling is racist. Zimmerman's defence team admitted there was racial profiling. We can all decide for ourselves whether we feel this makes Zimmerman a racist.

Institutional racism is alive and kicking in the American justice system.

If I was in America I would be in the streets today protesting as loudly as I could.

Specialagent - Where are you getting this 'racist track record' shit from?!

Send me a link as I'd be genuinely interested to read it please

I assume you were there?