Speedboat accident in Padstow

[LittleAbruzzenBear]

I don't know if the mother was a MNer, but I am hoping she pulls through with her other DCs and so sorry to hear she lost her husband and daughter, Emily. I know words are useless, but I am thinking of them. It's all so sad and awful.

But talking about him having a "heavy life insurance" policy is totally irrelevant and incredibly poor form.

I imagine the life insurance is 'relevant' from a reporting point of view because it will make idenfying the driver at the time of the accident important.
Horrible horrible incident, dp and I spend a lot of time on boats and this put chills through both of us.

This is not about a witch-hunt for whoever was driving. It is about telling people that not using the killcord every time is risking just this kind of disaster. People do drive powerboats without knowing - I've seen it (and stopped it).

The Marine Accident Investigation Board have published a preliminary document, to get the safety lessons out as soon as possible. I'm not linking as some may not want to read what happened, but here is the RYA advice for anyone who uses or gets into any open power boat.

www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/safteytips/Pages/KillCord.aspx

The thing is, the accident was avoidable and it's important that people realise that yes, they do need to use the killcord properly. You can believe that without blaming the poor family - we are all only human, show me a parent who has never made a mistake and I'll show you a liar etc. etc. etc. Whoever was driving the boat made a terrible mistake, and sadly for them it turned out to be a tragic mistake. No-one thinks they went out that day trying to cause mayhem. But finding the cause of the accident may help avoid future cases.

Publicity is important - the Evening Standard tonight had an interview with a bereaved father whose son was killed in a very similar accident a few years back. 17 year old lad, full of promise, killed because the person driving the speedboat wasn't wearing the killcord. The driver survived - the father didn't blame them, but he did want the law changed and the problem raised so that other tragedies can be prevented.

Why so? Does the truth offend?

Erm, northern- as you have addressed me with your criticism, would you kindly point out where I've mentioned wealth?

And as for saying 'try telling mrs milligan the accident was avoidable '- huh?? Of course I'm not going to say that to her personally, I don't need to, she presumably realises that. The point is: this is a really serious issue; many people feel there should be legislation around it not simply guidelines. Thousands of people want to enjoy the seaside, lakes etc as swimmers, kayakers , sailors etc and people who act recklessly endanger them. That may be an unpalatable truth to you, but it doesn't make it any less true.

You need a dictionary and some common sense. Stop being so unsufferably pious and look at the clear facts. Nobody is being callous

I think what the non sailors don't really "get" was just how much this was a largely preventable tragedy, and just how much, but for a few other brave people putting their safety at considerable risk, it could have been a lot worse. These boats are very powerful craft.

I think it doesn't do any good to try and hide these things, or else the same will just happen again and again.

exactly lazyjaney. It's perfectly possible to point that out, without criticism, and with total sympathy for the family.

I am a sailor. I see nothing wrong with a thread discussing safety wrt this accident. I think to non-sailors it's looking like people are trying to apportion blame, but I really don't think that's the case. What we do on the water affects the safety of everyone around us as well as ourselves. We have a natural interest in figuring out, without blame, what happened, how we can stop it happening again, and how we can communicate that effectively to inexperienced powerboaters.

I personally want to know how the boat came to be out of control before anyone fell out, in case I ever have to deal with a situation like that myself. But I am not particularly interested pointing the finger at whoever was driving.

I was on the thread about the accident with the canoes in Scotland, and there were a number of people who were grateful to sailors posting for explaining the difference between buoyancy aids and the type of lifejacket that children should wear at sea, and why it is unwise to take a Canadian canoe to sea. So I think there is a place for this kind of thread.

So many of you have made me feel utterly sick. On the one hand, the support I am getting from MN'ers in a specific situation is just staggering (in a good - albeit BEYOND hard to accept - 'helping' way)

Then see THIS thread. And just think, 'Are you MAD? OR just vile?'

Cannot explain how or whay but I knew this man. Did not know his family. But DO know he is DEAD. As is their CHILD. As is blunt fact of what I know re realities of Mrs.M's injuries and son's injuries.

Yet see THIS (& more):

'Unfortunately people who are risk-takers will easily take the test, get the piece of paper, but still act like jerks - arrogance and mis-placed self-belief does not get wiped out by passing a test. Typically the type of high-earner/achiever who buys a toy like this will not even consider the rules apply to them. It is not that they don't know the reason for the kill cord, just that they think they are terrific drivers, are too cool to use it.'

Yep - I'm just SURE that Nico thought he was 'too cool' to attach kill-cord. WTAF?

HERE is bottom line. This is an horrific event. A loving Father & his child have DIED. His wife & another child have suffered injuries that WILL change their lives forever. Other children have the trauma of what they went through and saw - AND the loss of their Daddy and sibling - to deal with.

Do NOT peddle horrific and vile comments re 'irresponsibility' and - worse - income/life insurance - under the 'guise' of care for change. As MANIFESTLY that WILL be what (if needed) those in authority WAY above yours, and with a FAR bigger public reach will do.

Show decent compassion. Hold YOUR (intact) family tight. But do NOT defame a DEAD man or lay 'blame' at his feet whilst he still cannot even be buried? And even if it WAS the case he failed to attach kill-cord, that wouldn't have been him (he was in his 50's FFS) trying to 'be cool' - it would (IF that was case), him making an assumptive, and then huge vis consequences, error of judgement.

Nauseated at those at who have posted to the effect of "It was his 'fault' "; had a 'toy' as earned a high salary; his 'insurance' will be high. Shame on you all as we ALL know that, HOWEVER this happened, a family is ripped asunfer; people are DEAD; and NO-ONE involved would have 'deliberately' caused it.

Show me ANY one of YOU that has not made an error of judgement either per se or as a parent - and I'll show you a liar.

VILE.

• asunder

Fairphylllis- that's a very good point: I too remember the thread about the canoe tragedy. What emerged from fhat case is that the survivors themselves didn't know the difference between life jackets and bouyancy aids, never mind the general public. As I recall there were a great many grateful people on that thread who weren't aware of the potential dangers - I certainly didn't know just how unstable that particular type of canoe was and that it could capsize easily and would be impossible for an adult thrown in the water to turn back over.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with highlighting the essential lessons to be learned, and unfortunately it often seems to take a real life high profile tragedy like this for people to really 'get it'.
I'd

If someone started a thread on the importance of safety devices, many people wouldn't see the importance, but in this context of a major incident they can.

Do any of you remember the 'clunk, click' campaign run in the seventies to encourage people to use safety belts? (Sadly the unspeakable Jimmy Saville fronted it but the message remains vital). I'm old enough to remember when it ws perfectly legal to drive off with your children in your car with not one of you strapped in. My father had a car for a short time when I was little and it didn't even have seatbelts - thank God he sold it.

Real examples of tragedies would be used in these ads, to drive home the point about what could happen if you didn't 'belt up.' No doubt this was horribly painful if you'd lost someone in one of these accidents, but I wonder how many of us wouldn't be here today if the law hadn't been changed - and it took years of campaigning before it was afair.

I'd repeat the view that the aim is not to apportion blame or censure, but to stress the importance of using the safety features available, and treating very powerful and potentially damaging machines with respect and caution I'd ban them from using speed in harbours/near beaches myself, but that's a whole other thread.

I hope my posts re insurance hasn't been misunderstood. I absolutely am not advocating a witch hunt, but from a news reporting point of view there has been a dramatic incident and so naturally people want to know what happened. But rather than speculate or assume,it will be important for the MAIB and presumably an inquest to establish who was driving and what exactly happened, which may also be a central element of any insurance claim dispute, that's all.

I sincerely hope for all this family has been through that there are not now low legal proceedings for them to endure.

I think there is a place for some discussion of the issue this story raised - if for nothing else it is very easy to hire small motorboat I some areas of the country and if more people are aware of the danger from propellers than that is worthwhile. But there is no place for some of the emotive language used here.

"Do NOT peddle horrific and vile comments re 'irresponsibility' and - worse - income/life insurance - under the 'guise' of care for change. As MANIFESTLY that WILL be what (if needed) those in authority WAY above yours, and with a FAR bigger public reach will do"

There may be a misunderstanding going on here. On a boat, the captain is responsible for the vessel and the crew, so it is perfectly reasonable to talk of irresponsibility given the kill cord not being worn. And this will impact insurance. These are neutral facts.

Also we need to draw lessons from this, and I refuse to be told to shut up about saying that.

The ability to rent or buy powerful motorboats with little or no training has been a rising problem over the last decade or so as their numbers increase. It is unthinkable to use powerful cars and planes without training and licencing, and you can't rent a sailing boat without qualifications either. To many sailors the only surprise is this sort of thing hasn't happened more often.

Well Janey you did mention being able to afford and moor a boat or 'toy' like this. The comment actually addressed to you didn't refer to that though. I was asking if you would subject Mrs Milligan to your views and of course the answer was no - so why lay in to her family's choices and situation on line? If you want to campaign for legistlation please do so. And perhaps you could share with us the many steps you've taken along that path before this tragedy too? The problem with this thread is that attaches a need for greater safety to one familiy's hideous loss.

Eh? Are you seriously setting yourself up as some kind of moral arbiter of what people write on a public forum?

I have certainly never stated that the milligan family treated their power boat as an expensive toy. I have no idea of their motivation for buying one and indeed I don't know the family. But there are many people who do view jet skis, speed boats (as well as sports cars etc) as toys and have an irresponsible attitude towards them and a disregard for others safety.

And the fact remains that the title of this section is 'in the news' and therefore items in the news will be discussed. And actually saying 'this isn't the place, it should just be discussed in the newspapers' is missing the point. The story made news for a day or two, but it wasn't front page (or at least not in the paper I read) and at that point the safety features barely got a mention: the focus was on the incident itself and the heroic action of the man who risked his life to prevent further deaths. I would say about 99% of discussion about safety devices and how their use is essential in preventing further tragedy has come not from the newspapers (which have now rightly moved on to other news) but from forums such as this.

It is not heaping blame onto this individual family to simply state facts. The safety device in the boat was not used. They know that; we know that, it's hardly contributing to their tragedy that other people want to discuss the importance of getting safety messages out there. Indeed, ime where a family has experienced first hand an avoidable tragedy they very often want others to learn from it.

Ps- and many of us don't sign up to this sanctimonious 'you're only allowed to express a view if you can provide cast iron evidence of what you've done with regard to power boat safety before 5th May'

Bloody hell. I have a family. We often go to the beach in summer. I have an interest in my children's safety when they are swimming and sailing. Frankly all of us are entitled to express our views on safety issues. We're not only 'allowed' to do it if we meet some specification dreamt up by individual MNers!

Discussions like this are important. It's obvious from this thread and the one about the canoes in Scotland that the general public - who might well take it into their heads to do some casual boating one day - are not very well informed about basic water safety. We have had someone on here jumping to conclusions and talking about kill cords on dinghys - they don't have them - and an awful lot of people generally still don't understand the difference between a lifejacket and a buoyancy aid.

Legislation is not necessarily part of the answer. A better informed public certainly is, and that starts with discussions like these. The Padstow accident and the Scottish accident have in common that they were both tragedies caused by, from a sailor's POV, fairly basic errors of judgement. All activities on the water carry some kind of risk - but imo in both cases poor decisions brought a much higher level of risk into play, and people sadly paid for that with their lives.

I'm not interested in blaming the individuals involved because they have already been punished enough. But if you can't discuss marine safety in the light of an accident like this, when can you talk about it?

Phyllis asks where to talk about marine safety and I'll answer. It's certainly not on a thread like this. If you want to highlight a safety issue start a new thread and don't piggyback onto a tragedy such as this.

There are safety issues everywhere in life. I see them and often cringe. Bloody talking on mobile phones while driving is way up there in the "potential murderer" camp along with imbeciles that drink then drive.

If you want to promote safety then I suggest you take it to where there is a wider audience. Doing that here is simply cruel.

This is exactly the right place to discuss safety.

OK, you are sensitive about it because you know the family but honestly, are you unable to separate 'discussion of the causes is important so that other people can be aware and avoid them' and 'stop being so mean to the poor family'?

This is precisely where there is a broad demographic and plenty of people with young families who are invested in safety issues. Some people seem to assume that it's only power boat enthusiasts who are invested... No it's not- it's anyone with a family who enjoy the sea side, swimming etc. I am highly unlikely to ever own or hire a speed boat. However I do swim in the sea, as do my children, DH is a surfer and ds is fast following in his footsteps. I damn well want issues like this highlighted to a wide audience- not simply those who will take the time and effort to delve into marine safety reports, because frankly, those who bother to do that are more likely to be safety conscious anyway. It's the people who arent as clued up- who might hire a boat, or stick on a piece of equipment without knowing if its a bouyancy aid or lifejacket who do need to know

So why the fuck don't we have threads here every week telling people not to drink and drive. That happens every friggin day of the year. The sad thing is that it happens so often that we have almost become immune to it.

I wonder if any of you remember being a child in the 60s. There were government ads about dropping litter, being able to swim, being able to drive etc etc. I still remember those.

The most danger we can ever put our children in is driving them in a car. We can't get that safety message across - and the Government doesn't seem to be interested. The proof - look at the amount of imbecile people still texting and looking at the phones while driving. Read about the number of people being caught drink driving.

But please, please, don't highlight an utterly heartbreaking, life-destroying situation by trying to jump on the "HSE" bandwagon.

I would hope that if you feel really strongly enough about this tragic accident that it needs promoting then you start your own thread warning people.