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Grayling defending smacking

999 replies

seventiesgirl · 03/02/2013 11:38

Never did him any harm apparently. The tory party are such a bunch of tossers. Whatever next?

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 04/02/2013 10:08

Amazingmum, then I don't understand why you posted those scenarios, if not as examples, to a poster who is anti-smacking and pro-other methods of behaviour management, of when smacking would be, in your opinion, a good way of teaching a child that 'no means no'

If you didn't intend to suggest that those scenarios were better solved with a smack, then what did you intend?

AnnIonicIsoTronic · 04/02/2013 10:09

My methods are labelled by DH 'the ironic punishment room'.

I see my role to amplify/ damp down natural consequences of their actions, to illustrate why they are wrong.

I have no problem with using my greater strength to achieve this - but I don't hit. Restrain, remove, carry to achieve an end fine. Hitting - why?

So - for example - running away/ grabbing things in shops = having to hold my hand 'because mummy is scared you'll get hurt - and it's my job to keep you safe'. They scream and try to throw themselves on the floor & accuse me of hurting their arm Hmm - meh - its the logical consequence of not behaving safely & appropriately out.

If one DC hits another DC they are required to sit with the hurt child, look after them & apologise - and allowed to rejoin the game when the hurt child says its OK. I think that makes the point that hurting people is easy, making them better is hard - but you'll have to do it eventually.

If they tantrum - I restrain and/or ignore until they burn themselves out. It's scary enough for them without me needing to add any punishment to the mix.

In 4 children, I've never had an issue with touching hot things. Babies and toddlers are removed via high chairs or stairgates. Older kids just understand it (why would they touch something hot if they undstanding it burnt Hmm ). a bit like my experience of getting thrashed for walking home alone when my carer lost me - this smells to me of the child being punished for the parents careless parenting.

PolkadotCircus · 04/02/2013 10:12

Roll I did and do do all that however as children get older and push boundaries more,question very intelligently it doesn't always work.Since my 3 have turned 8,8and 9 I have even been heard to even say "because I said so" after an hours discussion over why I wasn't going to give way.

I suspect as we get nearer the teenage years this will get more frequent.

noblegiraffe · 04/02/2013 10:12

dancer if you smack your children for having tantrums (do you?) and they still haven't stopped having tantrums, past an age where you might expect them to have grown out of them, doesn't that suggest that smacking hasn't worked?

Dancergirl · 04/02/2013 10:14

annionic what do you do if the hurt child doesn't WANT to be looked after by the person who hit them?

Dancergirl · 04/02/2013 10:14

noble I don't smack but I am struggling to find a solution.

BertieBotts · 04/02/2013 10:16

It totally depends why they're having the tantrum IMO. If they're doing it because they can't cope with something then you need to teach them how to cope with that thing - you can't do that immediately, so you have to ride out the tantrum.

If of course they're behaving in a tantrum-like manner because they think it will get them what they want that's different. But when they're younger especially it's almost certain that they are lashing out or reacting extremely because they can't cope with something they're experiencing. Adding more stuff that's difficult for them to cope with doesn't help.

doyouwantfrieswiththat · 04/02/2013 10:17

I haven't noticed anyone getting hysterical.

I've heard people sharing their real experiences of smacking.

I've read anti-smacking posters I agree with and who have given me useful info. to help me raise my boys without smacking.

I've read pro-smacking views I choose to disagree with for the reasons mentioned.

Not noticed hysteria, just the usual varied mumsnet views. It's why we come isn't it?

amazingmumof6 · 04/02/2013 10:19

noblegiraffe - read what himalaya said

I was asking if in HER world the word no exists or not!

if my child climbs somewhere I don't want him to climb (coz it's messy,dangerous, or it's just time for bed) I'm not prepared to take him where he can do it, I will tell him no.

because what would happen if I don't say no but leave the house? when I go back home he'd just climb again - the problematic behaviour would not be solved!

and all the other examples were just highlighting how not dealing with a problem and not teaching a child right from wrong will not make the problem go away.

I hope this is clearer to everyone.

(no need to be nasty about my name choice either)

rollmopses · 04/02/2013 10:21

Agree, Polka. Fortunately the teenage years are still in the distant future and I suppose we'll cross that bridge once we get to it.

Meanwhile it will be long chats about the world and weird/wonderful/not-allowed/etc things in it, with lots of cuddles.
Naughty-steps and pudding/television bans and soforth.

They know that Mummy always keeps her promises and when a particularly naughty naughtiness has overcome either of them and the above has ceased to work, then '' No Natural History Museum for you next week'' or similar will do the trick - as if Mummy said it, it will happen.

PolkadotCircus · 04/02/2013 10:22

Well you're clearly reading a different thread to me.

A few hysterical extreme posts on a MN thread do not give an accurate picture of smacking in GB,sorry it doesn't.Some of the posts are descriptions of abuse and the mothers I know who smack have never smacked like that and never would.It is simply unfair to tar all mothers who smack with that brush,many do it in a calm and measured way.

Phil1972 · 04/02/2013 10:25

Just chipping in.

I was smacked as a youngster and all it did for me was make me lose trust in the adults I should have trusted most.

As far as I'm concenrned and this is just my personal opinion, smacking is no more than an adult losing control and temper and what would it teach a young mind, if you don't get what you want or need to do something to stop someone else doing what they shouldn't, resort to physical violence....

I do not see any logic or positives in it in any way shape or form.

PolkadotCircus · 04/02/2013 10:27

You can say that about shouting and threatening too though Phil. If done in anger it isn't any better imvho and actually many don't smack in anger.

Phil1972 · 04/02/2013 10:29

Nothing beats a stern and logical conversation. Children are cleverer than we often think and understand why we are upset. Combined with the threat and (no wavering) carrying out of threat to restrict and use sanctions of their pleasures and favorite things (whatever they may be; playstation, toy, tv etc) always has worked for me.

My three are relative angels and have always eventually fallen into line using the above.

Even smacking in a controlled and calm way still is ilogical to a child's mind and still says physical violence is ok. Controlled or otherwise.

Sorry, just my opinion.

amazingmumof6 · 04/02/2013 10:30

"Nothing beats a stern and logical conversation" - with a 2 year old?

PolkadotCircus · 04/02/2013 10:30

Just to add I do lose my rag in anger at times (I am human)with my dc,never,ever with other people's children bizarrely which is why I refuse to feel superior to those mothers who smack in a measured way.

doyouwantfrieswiththat · 04/02/2013 10:31

The mother's you know may not be an accurate representation of smacking in Britain either.

This forum may not be an accurate representation. We're a subset who have time to surf, access to computers/internet.

Some posts are a description of abuse, including my own, but the abuse occurred because the society I grew up in accepted smacking as the norm.

Phil1972 · 04/02/2013 10:31

Never lost my temper, shouted etc. Calm, confident, clearly stating displeasure and reasons for displeasure, if you are in control, this should be an easy skill of telling, explaining and unilateral negotiation.

Simples!

BertieBotts · 04/02/2013 10:32

Hmm, but sometimes when you say "no" they still continue to do it as well. And the theory with taking them somewhere they can climb (which might not be straight away, because contrary to popular belief, parents who follow a more child-centred approach do not literally revolve their entire life around the child's whims) that the climbing urge/need is satisfied and so they won't want to climb the bookcase any more because they understand they can climb somewhere else. And it does teach them right from wrong because you tell them in very simple language that we climb a climbing frame, but we don't climb a bookcase.

If you were to turn it around, you could say that you can say "no", you can even smack them to discourage them, but the climbing urge/need doesn't go away and so they will still try to climb the bookcase if they think you are not looking - or perhaps they will climb something else like a shelf in a supermarket or a tree or whatever.

I don't think a child will explode if you use the word "no" but it can work to re-phrase it as a positive instruction "Get down" for example - you're telling them what you want, not what you don't want.

And of course in all situations you presumably have to remove them from the bookcase, so again, you're physically showing them they're not supposed to be on it. But most children don't climb bookcases when they're ten, whether they've been smacked, removed 10000 times, showed somewhere they can climb, distracted or whatever, so they do grow out of it.

PolkadotCircus · 04/02/2013 10:33

Blimey Phil- 3 angels I'm in awe,what all the time?

My 3 are angels at school and just about everywhere outside of home however they bicker at home and can nag,moan etc.

I thought that was normal.

Have to say I have to dish out slightly more than a stern chat at times.

PolkadotCircus · 04/02/2013 10:34

Abuse occurs in all societies.

Phil1972 · 04/02/2013 10:34

2 year olds are not stupid.

They understand their surroundings and enough language and understanding of body language so yes, even with a 2 year old, always worked for me with patience and perserverance.

Phil1972 · 04/02/2013 10:38

Smacking escalated my brothers behavioural issues and only made him worse
Smacking worked on me for an hour but I lost complete trust and respect for my parents and their lack of control and perceived nurturing. They love me but they use physical violence on me!!?? Confusing for a child.

Relatively my 3 are angels. They are children and often did and do step out of line but once again I never have and never willl smack them.

Someting I'm doing is working,so....

Dancergirl · 04/02/2013 10:38

rollmopses the problem with that is, you have to have the Natural History trip already in place for it to be withdrawn. And as someone said above, you are relying on material things to discipline your child. That need to have money in order to discipline doesn't seem right to me.

Funny how no-one is really offering a basic, fundamental alternative.

As for 'no pudding' as a punishment? Terrible IMO. Food is food, we have dinner and (sometimes) pudding in our house and it's not related to behaviour. That could really be setting up problems of all sorts in the future.

Phil1972 · 04/02/2013 10:43

Some seriously ilogical and flawed arguments for pro smacking on here.

These things are so entrenched that changing someone's mind is almost impossible. How psychologically is someone who smacks their child going to say "hang on a minute, you're right, what I am doing is wrong and counterproductive with regards to the relatioship I want with my child"

Aint gonna happen!!

So I bid you all farewell. Have a nice day!

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