Flag saga Northern Ireland

[SucksFakeSanta]

I am ashamed to be from NI.

Thank goodness there has been no loss of life, but some people have had terrifying experiences.

My DC are now scared of 'the flag people' after the route to my DTSs birthday dinner was blocked by a mob earlier this evening.

Seriously fed up with it all. Cannot imagine what it must be like to be working in retail or tourism at the minute.

I think the first time the removal of the flag was suggested was as far back as 2003 Claig
The balance of the council has moved from strongly unionist to more balanced with Alliance holding the sway atm

I think that this is a decent compromise and people are failing to see that the Alliance party got this compromise. (Not a surprise given the smear campaign by the DUP UUP)
At the original vote the decision was that the Union flag would not be flown at all.
The Alliance Party did not back that suggestion at the full council vote but persuaded the entire council to agree to the union flag being flown on designated days so that everyone would feel they had something from the vote

'It's alien to me.'

It's alien to you because you don't libe there and haven't made the effort to put yourself in their shoes. People on both sides have suffered hugely and there is no easy answer to it.

No, just like people who live in N.I cannot vote to kick out England considering the English riots in recent years were far worse than anything ever seen in N.I

Exactly apache, which is why the DUP and UUP need to get off their backsides and think of some policies which won't alienate anyone who isn't a white, middle-aged Presbyterian male. There's a whole sector of NI society who are happy with the status quo and happen to be Catholic- with the NHS, free and fantastic choice of schooling, massive investment in public sector employment (of which the majority of workers are RC) etc. So why, why, why do we have to keep going round in circles rather than giving these people a voice?

We need a decent, liberal (for Northern Ireland) party to compete with the DUP. Are you listening, Mike Nesbitt?!

apachepony

agree with what you say

Wayne, I don't know enough about it because I don't live there. But I do know that when politicians want something doen they often start with a more extreme proposal and then water it down to make it palatable to the public.

Just because a compromise was reached, does not always mean that the right decision was reached.

Recently that is what Robinson has been trying to do. To repackage and sell the DUP as a party for middle ground liberal catholic voters...unfortunately I think the name as much as anything else will be a bridge to far for many liberal voters protestant or catholic
(In the same way as many liberal voters could never bring themselves to vote for a truly nationalist party.)
Alliance could be the answer

Alliance will only do what their Sinn Fein masters tell them to do, they are not a real party but pawns.

Claig I agree

However this issue really has been going on for ever.
It has been addressed in a very slow and orderly manner with every box ticked.
It seemed only a matter of time before the nationalist and unionist votes were roughly equal on Belfast City Council.
The Alliance Party have always stated their views on flag flying and basically they always want everyone to feel comfortable.

There are questions to be asked about whether SF/SDLP have tabled and are doing this disingenuously but actually maybe now it's just the right decision.
Perhaps part of it simply was a powerplay on their part but if some more people feel represented by the current status of the flag flown than the previous it's a good thing?
I don't think rioting in this way, over a democratic vote that has been rumbling for years, is doing anyone in NI any favours

It certainly won't help financially

Perhaps the solution would be to return to the Northern Ireland flag or create a new N.I flag that all parties and sides can agree upon flying in any and all parts of the country.

There were suggested options...
status quo
no flag
new flag altogether
designated days
RofI Tricolour alongside the Union Flag

if you weren't out illegally rioting, destroying property instead of peacefully protesting SantaIAmSoFuckingRock then there'd be no need for heavy handed brutality - no hmmming and haa-ing about deploying water cannon etc and letting thugs rule the streets.

I live in a Loyalist housing estate and quite frankly, it's just what they need - as my ma used to say, 'well if they weren't there in the first place, then they wouldn't have got hurt'.

not you personally, but the collective 'you' - if 'one' wasn't out rioting

claig - it is alien to me and I live in Belfast.

It is completely insane.

If Lisburn, (where most elected councillors are DUP) can agree to fly the Union flag on designated days there should be no problem at all implementing the same at the city hall.

The only people who have spoken any sense over the issue have unsurprisingly been women. Anna Lo, Hilary Clinton and Naomi Long.

'claig - it is alien to me and I live in Belfast.'

whitesocks, did you not foresee that this might happen? Other posters from NI have said that the politicians knew that it risked inflaming the situation.

Did no politicians warn that the vote might result in this violence?

btw i was referring to this quote upthread

Theres stories coming out now of police heavyhandedness and brutality

having watched them riot, the psni pretty much sit back and let it happen, they could do with exercising more force, making arrests and publishing the pictures of those rioting like the London Met did. Name and Shame.

drmummsy you are completely missing my point.

the people rioting do not see it like that. if they get battered by a police officer, do you honestly think they hold their hands up and say "alright, fair dos i deserved it"? no they get angry about it and their friends get angry about it, and angry people who are already stupid enough to be rioting do stupid things to those they believe are to blame for whatever situation they are in. you end up with revenge attacks on police officers who are just trying to do their jobs.

anyway, battering people does not stop riots. history tells us this.

There was someone from NI on Radio 4's The World At One who said that loyalist communities have suffered a moral breakdown because many loyalist men in the past were locked up in jail and that this destroyed families,
.
I find that hard to believe. What percentage of loyalist men were held in prison? Are they saying that the majority of loyalist men in these communities were held in prison? I find that hard to believe.

The PSNI are video recording everything and will make arrests at a later date, it is a very effective form of policing and much safer than using the old snatch tactics which they are no longer allowed to use.

I'm not missing your point, I read and understood it - I am disagreeing with it, that is entirely different.

Claig, people from both sides have been locked up in prison in the past, you need to remember that a person does not need to be charged with a crime to be locked up in N.I though it rarely happens nowadays but internment in the 1970s was very common.

also, if the police aren't getting stuck in trying to break it all up, there is less for the rioters to push against. hopefully they will lose interest quicker that way and go back to whatever legal and effective political action they were doing previously

It is alien to me, and I have lived here all my life, to get worked up about flags and where they are flown. Personally I woudn't have any flags flown anywhere in NI.

These issues do need to be addressed. If the politicians have been discussing this since 2003 at some point that decision has to be made.

There is never a right time and they should not be beggared by those brave men with their faces covered in masks.

Knuckle dragging inbred imbeciles.

there is less for the rioters to push against

nope, they'd fight with their fingernails, mindless burn cars anyway. whenever the psni take a run at them, they run away scared, because really they're not big, brave or clever - they're just young lads, out for the craic of a good aul cider fueled riot