I don't know one single reason why Scotland would want to quit the UK

[ClementineKelandra]

I'm genuinely interested in the reasons why Scotland want to break away from the UK. I'm sure there must be many good ones but I jyst can't see any atm.

Whereyouleftit - that is beautifully worded :)

That would also fit in with the fact that sovereignty still resides with the Scottish people

Little miss where on earth are you commuting that takes 90 minutes? You can cover most of the central belt in that time!

Oh the new M74 is fab - I've got friends who live in Cambuslang and visiting them from the West End is so easy now.

I fully expect it to be nose-to-tail within 5 years though unfortunately.

It's great for getting to the new velodrome too - even though we're using it in exactly the wrong way - going on at one junction and off at the next

...but at least we're not doing it at rush hour (although Scottish rush hour is still nothing like English rush hour)

Yep. I use all the Glasgow motorways like that .

My name is sleepyhead and I am Part Of The Problem.

MrsKeithRichards - Midlothian commuter town - 8 miles door to door, to Edinburgh City Centre, the West End, - 10 minute walk to bus stop - 10 minutes average wait for bus, unreliable, 10 minutes walk on other end, 55 mins - 1 hour on bus, stopping at every single stop, usually before traffic lights, to travel 8 miles. Its a bloody misery. If I drive, it takes 25 - 30 mins, but then I pay £20 a day to park!

Park and Ride option takes slightly longer as the Sheriffhall roundabout needs to be navigated and not possible to walk to it as the new, busy roads were built with no pavements.

This is the reality of living in modern day Scotland - I really wish I could see the investment in infrastructure the SNP talk about, and I don't have much faith in that which they promise, since they seem to base their transport thinking on junkets to places like Trondheim and Malaysia, rather than somewhere like Newcastlem, which has an excellent urban light railway.

My 3.1mile cycle to work used to take 17 minutes (without me trying to go faster). Quicker and more reliable than going by car (the Kingston Bridge clogs easily, especially going home). My base pace has since increased thanks to a cycling mad ds although I now work from home.

Think in your position I would prefer to cycle the 8 miles - not only would it be quicker but I would be getting fitter at the same time! I'm also not phased by cycling in traffic (although do look for reduced/traffic free alternatives). But then, I'm essentially lazy and liked being able to combine exercise with commuting

I'm actually a competitive triathlete, but I cycle rarely -its on narrow, twisty, hill roads, and takes me 50 minutes at best. Thats 1 hr 40 mins cycling a day. Thats on my good racing bike, on a mountain bike or commuter bike it would take me over an hour. Of course at this time of year it would be in the dark, and most likely freezing rain or snow, on those narrow roads. I think I'd probably be killed - 3 of my competitors in the cycling world have been, over the years. I doubt it would do much for my racing performance either, because its not proper training, and I'd be literally bathing in carbon monoxide fumes. Two years ago I did combine a few cycles with running on alternate days, and ended up hospitalised with pneumonia.

Its about as practical as buying a 350k 2 bed flat in the New Town so I can live closer to my work.

Basically, I want to live in a country which is organised so that I don't base my entire life on getting to and from work, but can simply get on a local commuter train. I seriously doubt an indepdendent Scotland will deliver this, at least not in my working lifetime. I don't think the SNP cares about people like me.

well hang on, you presumably moved to a 'commuter' town with no rail link. take some responsibility, for god's sake...

What, like Glasgow you mean? There's plenty not marvellous about this city, but the commuter trains are pretty great.

Edinburgh's got serious transport issues, but like I say, several solutions have been shouted down over the years by some pretty vocal and determined resident groups. You can't blame the SNP for the preferences of local council tax payers.

I'm still not clear why the Union would be better for cyclists?

There are many other arguments for and against Independence (and again, it's important not to conflate the SNP with Independence - there are many Labour, LibDem and even Conservative voters who agree with it) - but lack of infrastructure is not one I would have put top of the list. The freedom to make full choices - like VED and Petrol Duty could be arguments, as they are powers that the Scottish Government doesn't currently have control over.

Some argue that the SNP (as the current Scottish Government) are too "friendly" towards cars and are putting too much money into road infrastructure - I actually wouldn't disagree with that - but it's not necessarily the SNP that would be in charge should the Scots vote for Independence.

But I am struggling to see why you are blaming the SNP for the current infrastructure? Even when I lived in France, if you chose to live in a rural area, you had to accept that there were limitations in getting to places. Public transport wasn't wonderful. As I didn't drive at that time, I had to factor that in to where I lived.

I've commuted in the South East of England. I've commuted between Bolton and Leeds, between Glasgow and Ayr and between Glasgow and Kilmarnock (both before the M77). The time I took to commute (and the cost) was a choice - a trade-off between where I wanted/had to live (for whatever reason, be that partner, liking my house or not being able sell) and where I wanted (or needed) to work. Not the government's fault.

Moved from where Aitch? I grew up here. I did move into my own house of course. It didn't used to be a commuter town, and still largely isn't, in that it is a healthy traditional community in its own right. When I grew up (violins...), it was possible to commute in far less time than now. The planning policies have meant Midlothian is now full of new build housing estates, but they haven't put in any traffic infrastructure to cope with them. There is actually a disused railway station half a mile from my home...

I know you can't blame anything on the SNP, or indeed Labour, but you certainly can't blame any of that on me either!

Prettybird the commutes from Ayr and Kilmarnock to Glasgow are (a) far, far longer than the one I've got and (b) have railway commutes possible.

Infrastructure is top of my list from what I'm looking for on a day to day basis, because it affects my daily life so much. If people can't get to their jobs without a horrendous journey, and none of the politicians see it as a priority, whats the point in everything else?

I'm not really interested in the SNP's self serving esoteric rhetoric. I'm interested in actual physical infrastructure, like you get in other first world countries. And in a future thats likely to deliver non self-serving value for money solutions, not more cronyism and politicians congratulating themselves on how wonderful they are and how much they've done.

Cancelling prescription charges (I'd honestly rather pay for them and keep the free ones for those who can't afford them) and free bus travel for pensioners haven't done much for me. But as I say, people like me don't matter to the SNP, and I get the feeling they want to keep us quiet, because we're too much trouble.

Agree, prettybird, about the trade-off between living where you want to and the commute times. if the traffic to Embra has got so much worse (and i certainly wouldn't want to commute there every day) then it's up to people who hate it to start petitioning for change. how you are more likely to get more frequent buses under the union is beyond me.

btw, re this. "I know you can't blame anything on the SNP, or indeed Labour, but you certainly can't blame any of that on me either! "

again, i don't understand. do you think i am an SNP-ite? i'm really not.

gawd, and sorry to be checking through your posts etc but you did say that you've lived in various countries (hence the reason you've formed the view that Scotland is crap) so in fact yes, you do have to take responsibility for where you live now, as you clearly moved back to a place without a rail link.

As others have said - alternatives have been proposed but stymied by NIMBYs, although there is a new railway being (re)built from the Borders. There is an equivalent problem in Glasgow with neither Renfrew nor the airport having a direct rail link. Glasgow is fortunate though to have a good suburban railway system (as well as our wee Clockwork Orange).

I agree: more should be done on public transport infrastructure. I also agree (I think) with you that the SNP talk a good game but are still putting too much into road infrastructure. I personally would prefer to see the money planned for the new Forth crossing spent on (proper) cycling infrastructure. I think all it will do is encourage more people to move to the Kingdom of Fife - and then complain about the traffic once they hit Edinburgh.

I would like to see a proper, integrated transport policy where all forms of transport - public, cars, roads, freight, cycling are considered holistically.

I actually understand and agree withthe free prescriptions: when it costs more to administer and also runs the risk of people not collecting their scripts so that they later present with more serious problems, then it makes sense to make them free for all.

The free buss pass I agree with you about! :) The money could be better spent elsewhere.

But those are the choices we make when we vote for any government. I don't feel I am "not listened to". I actually think that the SNP has made more of an effort to accommodate other opinions than the Labour and Libdem administration ever did. I think being a minority government for the first term helped. I do worry that too much of a majority is dangerous (for any government).

Aitch - I moved back to my own home. I fail to see why living in a town 8 miles from a country's capital city is viewed as so unreasonable by you.

Why is this relevant to independence? Because the people who are responsible for local planning decisions and the current infrastructure are those who would be responsible for even more major decisions under independence. At least membership of the UK ensures some checks and balances on them and a higher quality of properly scrutinised legislative output.

I also cannot understand a country whose politicians seems hellbent on continually controlling the lives of individual citizens to the nth degree, but who cannot sort out the basic infrastructure to acceptable first world standards. Which is damned strange in a country which everyone appears to agree is left wing and non-individualist in nature.

I also think a country gets the government its people deserve, and I'm not at all impressed with what the Scottish Government has "achieved" so far, nor the level of debate it produces. Much of it is so dire, it is an embarrassment to the country. What I would like to see is productiveness on real issues, basic infrastructure and encouraging a vibrant business culture, not vote-winners and treating the population as if they are children, but I hardly think that likely to happen.

The vote-grabbing gimmicks don't really make up for it. If there is independence, I'm out of here (assuming they don't put some kind of prohibitive tax on it). I feel utterly disenfranchised. I can only see life for me becoming worse under independence, as I will have to pay more tax for the dubious privelege of living here, and being told my views don't count.

because it was a town 8 miles from the city's capital without a rail link. and now you're complaining that there isn't a rail link. duh.

Prettybird this: I actually understand and agree withthe free prescriptions: when it costs more to administer and also runs the risk of people not collecting their scripts so that they later present with more serious problems, then it makes sense to make them free for all

Are you really suggesting that the people of Scotland are less capable than those in the rest of the UK of managing to collect their own prescriptions?

Well if that is so, then independence is likely to be very expensive if people are to be so discouraged from taking responsibility for themselves!

LessMiss I just realised that your problem isn't finding Independence unpalatable, you just don't like.... erm.... Scotland!

Most (if not all) the issues that seem to anger you aren't actually political

In your own words Scots are obsessed with money, pseudo socialists, sexist, can't speak in public (??), have a cynical working culture, are intolerant etc.

Aitch you are missing the point. The problem is lack of transport infrastructure for an increased population. A rail link can and should have been built by now. It should have been planned along with the massive number of new build housing estates in the area. And it would have been, if those purportedly left wing politicians any real interest in the people they are supposed to represent, rather than political rhetoric.

The point is that the recent policies of Scottish politicians, those who would lead an independent Scotland, have created a situation that is a nightmare for the people who live and work here. Many of the housing estates which contribute to the problem weren't here 3-4 years ago. Neither were the recent changes to the Edinburgh transport network.

Its unworkable.

so you personally, lessmissabs, what action have you taken to improve things? how have you become involved?

Poppy perhaps so. I just can't understand why these basic things aren't done well here. Unfortunately I'm in a career whose qualification means most of my work is in Scotland, for the time being.

I do think a healthy debate should include some introspection and self criticism, and I'm tired of the constant "Scotland is wonderful and anyone who dares criticise it is BAD" nonsense.

Maybe also the talented Scots tend to leave the country? Does anyone think independence and the type of "new Scotland" it would produce would encourage them to stay?