Woman dies in Galway after being denied termination

[AThingInYourLife]

Holy evil pro-life bastards, batman

The wonder is it that there haven't been more

RIP Savita Halappanavar :(

squoosh thank you for making me smile. Although one must ask, was it the work of Dev, or John Charles. Hard to tell......

From the little I know of this it seems to me as if medical negligence is to blame, not pro-life laws.

My guess is there have been other cases like this, in Ireland and other countries. This one just happens to have hit the media.

But I also think abortion is such a grey area, it's never going to be 100% perfect all of the time.

RIP Savita Halappanavar

There is a bit more detail in the Irish Times report.

Poor woman - poor husband. It probably never occurred to them when they went to Ireland that in an apparently civilized democracy a woman could be treated in this manner.

The woman's husband just gave an interview on Channel Four News. He said Savita would still be alive without a doubt if she had been allowed a termination.

Without a doubt. He said that.

Cailin, are you trying to be deliberately vexatious? Did you look for even basic information on Chorioamnionitis, as suggested by BadDay above.

The infection would have travelled through the cervix to the foetus and products of conception, which most likely were already necrotising, providing an ideal medium for the bacteria to grow and spread to the surrounding uterus and through the bloodstream, to the rest of the body.

Removing the foetus and products of conception would remove the bulk of the tissue harbouring the infection, making the infection that had spread far easier to treat with aggressive antibiotic therapy.

It would be the same if a patient had a gangrenous foot. Treating this by antibiotics alone would not be sufficient to halt the infection. The tissue of the foot is already starting to die, will never recover and become living tissue again and provide a medium for the bacteria to feed, grow and spread to the still healthy tissues surrounding it. So, you have to remove the dead and dying tissue AND treat with antibiotics.

In clinical situations like that of Savita Halappanavar, the products of conception, like a gangrenous foot, were already dying even if the foetus still showed a heartbeat. The necrotising tissues would never recover, never be able to support continued gestation of the foetus, so the foetus would not be viable. Without removing the infected, necrotising products of infection, anti-biotics would have only limited effect because the tissues cultivating the infection were still present, still generating more bacteria and enabling spread of the infection throughout the woman's body.

It seems by the time the products of conception were removed, the infection had spread and become so aggressive, causing irreparable damage to her vital organs that antibiotic and other treatments couldn't save her.

The "then she should have had a hysterectomy if the womb was also infected" argument is a complete red herring. If the infection had spread to the degree that the uterus was also necrotising, yes, a hysterectomy would have been indicated. But if the products of conception had been removed early enough, the infection would not have caught hold enough to kill off the uterine tissue, necessitating a hysterectomy.

I am Irish although have lived in the UK for the last 25 years. I go "home" regularly and still have family over there. I have, up until today, been proud of my heritage and nationality. However I am shocked, embarrassed and disgusted at this despicable, neanderthal tragedy. As I said earlier today on my FB site we might as well don the Burka and be done with it if this is what is happening in a progressive European nation! Ireland hang your head in shame. But I honestly would never have thought it possible. I know that Ireland still doesnt have abortion but I have personal experience of information being available through various health and womens clinics as to where you can go to get it without much or any difficulty. And that is when it is an option. This just seems such a random act of idiocy on the part of some neanderthal doctor that I cant imagine, dont even want to imagine, it is the norm. I understand that there is a march on the Dail (our parliament) in Dublin tonight to protest this grotesque and anitquated response to this poor woman. I hope that our politicians heed it and do the right thing. And may her tragic death and that of her unborn child be not in vain. There are no words to ease the pain for that womans husband and family. The Irish govt need to give him a public apology. I am sad to be Irish tonight.

"Because not enough Irish people (of both genders) care enough, to put it bluntly? "

Exactly. As a whole we're all happy to sit back and pat ourselves on the back that we protect the child's right to life all the while delighted that the boat to England is our little get out clause to stop things getting too messy.
No politician will rich it with a stick either way as the PRSTV system means they rely on hitting the middle ground to pick up 2nd and 3rd preferences to keep their jobs so don't want to alienate any voters

From the little I know of this it seems to me as if medical negligence is to blame, not pro-life laws.

yeah, right.

?Savita was really in agony. She was very upset, but she accepted she was losing the baby. When the consultant came on the ward rounds on Monday morning Savita asked if they could not save the baby could they induce to end the pregnancy. The consultant said, ?As long as there is a foetal heartbeat we can?t do anything?.

?Again on Tuesday morning, the ward rounds and the same discussion. The consultant said it was the law, that this is a Catholic country. Savita [a Hindu] said: ?I am neither Irish nor Catholic? but they said there was nothing they could do.

?That evening she developed shakes and shivering and she was vomiting. She went to use the toilet and she collapsed. There were big alarms and a doctor took bloods and started her on antibiotics.

It would appear to be a deadly combination of (sorry, horrible hypocritical oxymoron in this context) 'pro-life' laws and medical negligence.

Disgusting, poor woman and poor family

OK - so what is the policy where the cervix is dilated? Obviously, one always has the choice of refusing treatment, but are infections risks so great that women are routinely asked to stay in hospital and do they strongly advise induction?

Dilatation suggests that the miscarriage is inevitable. The risks are really increased with ruptured membranes, not dilatation.

Here's an interesting article: what would have happened in Britain

*the risks of infection

And if you are at clear risk of dying, and you have asked for medical abortion, it happens.

I am just incredibly saddened by this whole horrendous story. In a world where choice, treatment, diagnosis and education exist, why was this poor woman left to die in what has been reported as agonising pain? Children are blessings but so is free will. I am so so sad

I would like to see a totally independant none Irish investigation into this case and not the local authorities investigating themselves with the usual biased religion driven outcome.

Ireland is contravening European Convention on Human Rights for failing to legislate for emergency medical abortions which was agreed by referendum aeons ago.

The European Court of Justice gave a ruling, two years ago I think, instructing the Irish Govt to regularise abortion legislation.

Lucinda Creighton, Ireland's European Affairs minister has been quoted as saying the State is not bound by the EU's Court of Justice. (??!!)

Next year Ireland will hold the EU presidency from 1 January 2013 - 30 June 2013.

I'd just love to know how Ireland can hold EU Presidency whilst completely dismissing the rulings of its Court of Justice.

Well thankfully, since CailinDana no longer wishes to engage with people like me (rational people?) I no longer should have to hear her ill-informed bullshit claims that swift terminations are always pointless in cases such as these.
And hopefully anyone who has endured a heartbreaking termination on the grounds that it was medically necessary for their own health won't have to listen to her nonsense either.
Small mercies.

Savita should have been given the termination on the grounds that it was her wish.
Or on the grounds that continuing the pregnancy posed a risk to her life.
Either.

But for as long as the former situation is not yet possible in Ireland, let us not lend any credence to the stupidity that claims that there is never a medical reason to terminate a pregnancy, never a risk to the mother's life that could be removed with a termination. Because that argument paves the way for the next tragedy of this nature to occur.

I have been so angry and upset about this all day. I caught a glimpse of her photo in the paper over someone's shoulder on the train home and lost it. Is there anything I could do? Is there any organisation fighting to change this which needs money or needs me to make calls or something?? (I'm in England.)

DS is 11 months old today. A year ago I was admitted to hospital with fluid loss. I wasn't in labour or in pain, DS's heartbeat was strong and healthy as I was monitored overnight. But the fear, the overwhelming fear that something would happen to DS, was overwhelming at the time and still in my memory (and I later found out that DH cried in the car when he had to leave me there overnight because he was so worried about both of us). And this poor woman and her husband begged repeatedly in fear and pain for THREE DAYS to terminate her much loved and wanted pregnancy, and was refused - and then she died. There are no words.

Those of you saying this is not an abortion issue seem to be disregarding the fact that unless you think the husband is lying, the consultant's stated reason for not complying with her wishes about her body when she and her child were both dying was not that she wasn't in danger, not that they were treating her with antibiotics and that would be enough, not that there was some disagreement about the medical prognosis, not because they were following a course of treatment that could save her child, but because they were not able legally to do so while they could detect a heartbeat, and because "Ireland is a Catholic country".

Apologies if that last post of mine seemed so clinical. It's the former gynae nurse in me that clicked into clinical mode.

I looked after many women experiencing threatened or actual miscarriage/stillbirth. Generally, the indication in second trimester is induction of labour. It's heart wrenching and painful for the woman (and loved ones) but if there is no sign of infection present, that is the most appropriate treatment. However, I remember one case where there were signs of advancing infection and the surgeons believed induction of labour would put too much strain on the woman's weakened system and the process would be too slow for the foetus and products of conception to be expelled in time. They proceeded to an emergency surgical termination to save her life.

No, none of us know all the clinical facts of the case, but from what has been reported, that would have been the treatment certainly in any British hospital, without question.

I agree that the restrictive laws in Ireland set the stage for Savita Halappanavar's avoidable suffering and death. It allowed the doctors to hesitate in offering treatment internationally recognised as effective in the case. It contributed to a culture in the medical establishment that allows doctors to place their own ethical beliefs before treatment that is in the best interests of the patient.

SO with a dilated cervix there really was no hope that the foetus could survive? Posters have mentioned ruptured membrances and carrying on til viability - I'm assuming this could never have been the case for Savita?