Woman dies in Galway after being denied termination

[AThingInYourLife]

Holy evil pro-life bastards, batman

The wonder is it that there haven't been more

RIP Savita Halappanavar :(

CailinDana you are making medical statements which are simply wrong. Please do shut up when it comes to claiming things are medical facts when they plainly are not. It goes beyond idiocy to keep making these claims.

"that's not how human biology works"???? Your knowledge of human biology clearly could be improved with a better distinction between your arse and your elbow.

Cailin Abortion does not just mean removing the baby - you do know this, right? There are products of the pregnancy too, the placenta for one. The baby may not be the source of the infection, but it could well have been something else associated with the pregnancy. In which case, abortion was clinically indicated.

I don't for one minute think that termination alone would have cured the infection, of course it wouldn't.

Prophylactic antibiotics should have been offered on rupture of membranes, and as soon as it was apparent that the foetus stood no chance of survival then termination should have been permitted. There was no point subjecting her to more pain, becoming weaker and thus enabling the infection to gain a tighter grip.

I don't for one minute think that termination alone would have cured the infection, of course it wouldn't

You might be right - but why do you think that? It may not have made much difference once septicemia had set in, but removal of the pregnancy (if that was the source of the infection) stood a good chance of curing the infection before it got that far, wouldn't it?

'Anything less than abortion on demand is anti-women'

Define 'abortion of demand' however. If we pursue 'my body my choice' to its logical conclusion, then abortion should be available for any reason and up until birth. Is there any country that actually enshrines that position in law? In reality all countries restrict a woman's access to abortion. The restrictions are just different.

I still don't understand, if having a medical miscarriage is so important, and having a natural one is so dangerous, then why have most of the women I know who have had miscarriage opted for the natural option?

Again, somewherewest, I refer you to the 5000+ women who travel abroad for termination annually. They should not have to leave the country to get this treatment, regardless of their reasons for wanting it. The ECHR agrees and has demanded the Irish gov legislate for this, which Enda Kenny has said he will never do in his tenure as Taoiseach. Why do YOU think successive governments have refused to legislate?...

Because not enough Irish people (of both genders) care enough, to put it bluntly? Again, if there was electoral mileage in legislating, legislation would've been passed, as it was on divorce, censorship, contraception etc, and as it will be on same-sex partnerships pretty soon (again, polls suggest that a clear majority of Irish people favour same-sex marriage). If the women of Ireland (thats half the voters) were united and mobilised on the issue, there would be change. But they aren't. And there is naff all the ECHR or an army of indignant Mumsnetters can do about it.

Termination alone wouldn't kill an infection.
Only the antibiotics could do that. You'd never remove all of the infection particularly once it was in the blood.

the womb was infected ( don't know how as there could be a number of reasons) oce the pregnacy was ended then the placenta would have stopped working and rejected by the body.

the infection was passed throught the placenta as it would have been the only way it poisioned the mother.

with strong medication her life would have been saved

What is the policy in the UK wrt to second trimester pregnancy losses?

Posters have quoted their experienced of mc but not how many weeks along they were. I would suspect early (i.e. first trimester) miscarriages would be left to sort themselves out more frequently. Whereas 2nd tri losses might be more likely to be medicalised?

2nd trimesters are normally done by dilation and evacuation

No I won't shut up verylittle, but I will ignore your posts from now on. I don't engage with people like you.

Crikey, if the infection wasn't in the uterus then an abortion would have been pointless. I'm not saying I'm qualified to say it was in the uterus, I'm pointing out how it does not makes sense to say that having an abortion would have got rid of the infection, seeing as it's not possible to know that.

Stillorsparkling - at no point did I say that refusing abortion didn't increase the risk of infection - it might well have. The point is it's impossible to know whether the abortion would have prevented infection or not.

Can we please stop debating the whys and wherefores and maybes of this particular case. To the best of my knowledge, no-one on this thread is a member of the relevant medical team and if they are, they ought to find themselves up in front of the Irish Medical Council pretty sharpish.

The fact is that in Ireland, the life, the actual fundamental ability to breathe, of a woman, is not valued. This is enshrined in our constitution. We're also not too keen on women being unchained from the kitchen sink as article 41.2 states

"1° In particular, the State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved.
2° The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home."

Not a dicky bird about the value of a father!! Oh no, in order to be a good woman, and to achieve your purpose in life, you have to stay at home!!

Also in Ireland the "family" is so paramount that if you are an abused child, of married parents, you cannot be adopted by anyone else. Because nowhere in law can you break up a family. It. Just. Doesn't. Exist. And don't get me started on our "care" system because the record, the RECENT record of children disappearing from the care system and dying would make your hair stand on end. This is happening across the Irish Sea. Not in a country tens of thousands miles away run by religious fundamentalists...oh no, wait, maybe that second bit is wrong.

Like I said, ashamed to be Irish today. My English born daughter will not be getting an Irish passport. I wouldn't put her through the shame of having to show it anywhere.

Don't you just love the works of Eamon de Valera!

There are different ways of managing 2nd trimester miscarriages depending on the circumstances. Sometimes it is found that the fetus has died and in the absence of signs of infection mothers can be offerd 'expectant management' ie:waiting for natural miscarriage, or medical termination ie induced abortion using abortifactant drugs. Dilation and evacuation are not done on the NHS after 14 weeks.
If the mother is going through a long but (usually) inevitable miscarriage she is usually offered expectant management but if there are signs of infection she will be strongly advised to terminate the pregnancy to reduce the risks to her.

Well, if the Irish establishment wanted to show itself up in the eyes of the world as backwards, barbaric and woman hating -job well done.

I notice too that there was a snotty comment upthread about the "rage party". Well pardon me for saying so but, rage, frustration and despair are entirely appropriate reactions to an event like this. I am angry. I am livid.

A woman died, a young, healthy woman died unnecessarily, in what is supposed to be a developed nation. In the 21st century.

Her husband was looking forward to being a father and now that has been ripped away from him. This time last well they were both probably excited about and looking forward to their impending parenthood...wondering about the baby, boy or girl...and now she is dead. Just 32 years old.

If your reaction to all of that is not rage, anger, despair then frankly there is something wrong with you.

There is so much more I could say but I've said enough.

RIP Savita.

nailak early natural mc are less dangerous than late ones, infection can get into the womb where the placenta attaches to the wall of the uterus, either through the placenta or after the placentas is delivered as when it comes away from the wall of the uterus it leaves a wound that is open to infection.

I heard the deceased woman's husband say just now on Channel Four News that his wife would be alive 'without a doubt' if the hospital had carried out the termination that was asked for.