Woman dies in Galway after being denied termination

[AThingInYourLife]

Holy evil pro-life bastards, batman

The wonder is it that there haven't been more

RIP Savita Halappanavar :(

This is a disgraceful story, so, so sad - the barbaric way this woman was treated reflects so badly on Ireland. We are not all rabid-anti-choice Catholic idiots. I am hearing true outrage over here about this and hope something positive can come out of it.

I had 2 miscarriages last year and in neither case was I offered anything other than "go home and see how you get on, give us a call if you feel you need to". As I am O-negative I then had the treat of attending the regular part of the hospital (The Rotunda in Dublin) for my anti-D injections, surrounded by pregnant women and those bringing their babies in for the 6-week check-up. You can see the sensitivity with which I was treated, and also I wonder how would I know for sure if I needed anti-biotics anyway? We RELY on doctors to make these life-saving decisions for us.

I'd like to know how the term "life of the mother is at risk" is defined, is it just defined medically or if someone were to threaten to harm themselves without having a termination, would that be sufficient grounds for the doctor to go ahead?

Camaleon - having a miscarriage isn't life threatening, that is simply a fact. That is why she was denied an abortion when she got to hospital. She eventually got an infection, which WAS life threatening but at that stage having an abortion would have made no difference.

She wasn't given an abortion because in Ireland abortion is illegal

Ireland's Medical Council guidelines state that "abortion is illegal in Ireland except where there is a real and substantial risk to the life (as distinct from the health) of the mother".

Yes squoosh and when Savita came to the hospital there was no "real and substantial risk" to her life.

Verylittlecarrot- Your experience is different to mine, my waters went and they waited over 48 hours before even mentioning infection. Thankfully I had a good outcome and I hope you did too.

It seems that there maybe no hard and fast rule and judgment is required.

We will probably have to resign ourselves to the fact that until the full details are made public/the inquest is held it will not be clear what happened and who is at fault.

You have no idea what danger she was in. She was having an 'inevitable miscarriage' ie her cervix was dilated beyond the point of return. There are known risks. Sepsis is one of them. They had 3 days to do something about it. They sat back and did nothing, because 'pro-life' campaigners have put them in a position where they're afraid of being prosecuted for giving what, elsewhere in the world, is considered basic care that the woman spent 3 days begging them for.

I am disputing that in Ireland abortion is always illegal. Second, I am saying that even being illegal doctors should do illegal things to save lives and that the argument of legality only does not stand.
The pain did not kill her, of course. But the fact that se has in agony is proven by the fact that she actually died.
It is pretty irrelevant, but I had a very early miscarriage that started in a plain from Spain to Dublin and continued in a second plane to Galway (when the aiport was open) while travelling for work. I ended in the Galway hospital and was treated appallingly. So perhaps I am biased.

God, in a 'plane' not 'plain' among may other typos (trying to work and participate is impossible)

Cailin I was correcting your erronoeus statement about abortion in Ireland.

I agree totally that miscarriage is dealt with appallingly in Ireland. I haven't had experience of it myself thank god but I've had friends go through it and it is just sickening.

She was in agony yes, and that was totally unnecessary. I'm not disputing that she should have had an abortion straight away.

But mixing up the abortion and infection issues won't help - it'll just complicate the whole thing and bury the totally relevant abortion arguments IMO. Claiming that Savita died due to not having an abortion isn't accurate.

Very disturbing stories on this thread about being treated 'appallingly' by hospital staff when miscarrying. That's absolutely disgraceful.

'erroneous' erroneously spelt.

Narked

" They sat back and did nothing, because 'pro-life' campaigners have put them in a position where they're afraid of being prosecuted for giving what, elsewhere in the world, is considered basic care that the woman spent 3 days begging them for."

Exactly right.

The terrible thing is that they stayed in the hospital. If they had been anywhere else people would have told them what to do - go to the North.

It might not have been that simple Narked - it's a very very very long way from Galway to the border. Savita might not have been able to travel that far in the state she was in, and no airline would have allowed them to fly.

I have been listening to this on various Irish radio stations all day. From what I can gether this poor woman's death was not caused by the law, or a misinterpretation of the law, but by medical negligence.

My understanding is that women present at Irish hospitals in similar circumstances every day of the week, and it would be common practice to induce. It didn't happen here not because of the law, but because of poor medical practice.

Apologies if this point has already been made, I haven't had time to catch up on the whole thread.

caillinDana

You are woefully misinformed.

Abortion in Ireland isn't illegal, it is un-legislated.

The woman was a dentist herself, I'm fairly sure she knew the risks that came with septicemia.

I think this case is hard for some Irish people as it is messing with their national pride, which makes them defensive and clouds their judgement on this issue...

CailinDana

Your 'fact' is anything but.

Having a miscarriage isn't life-threatening? Are you arguing that her infection was co-incidental? Not at all related to the miscarriage?

There are risks associated with childbirth and with miscarriage. That most women survive happily does not mean that all will.

She is dead. Her life was threatened. By her miscarriage. And the way it was NOT treated appropriately.

Your desperate need to believe that a swift termination would have had no effect on the outcome is not believable at all.

Verylittle - having a tonsillectomy can result in infection and death. That does not mean that having tonsillitis is life-threatening. Do you see the distinction?

I know, Narked, one of the really awful things is that an Irish family would have known how vulnerable she was to not getting the treatment she needed.

And taken her elsewhere.

This poor couple trusted that Savita would be treated as a human in this hospital where she was treated as an incubator.

Yes, some Irish people will undoubtedly get prickly and defensive about criticism from foreign media.

And I don't give a damn. This is about breaching the human rights of women living in Ireland. I'm sure the Grand Chamber of the European Court of Human Rights will be taking an interest in this case too.

Cailin My understanding (very limited) is that her cervix had dilated and she was miscarrying. Ordinary this would take a matter of hours, but in her case it took days. It was this delay that allowed the infection to take hold, and if the pregnancy had been terminated as soon as it was clear that the foetus would not survive then the infection could have been avoided.

If this is right (and that's what's being reported) then the refusal to terminate directly contributed to her death.

caillin you say miscarriage isnt life threatening?!! Yes it can be in cases of extreme blood loss and infection. The longer she was left the longer the infection had to take hold. An abortion on its own would not have saved her but in conjunction with antibiotics it may well have given her a chance.